Catcher Out Of Box

[emaxos]

JUCO game, bottom of 10th inning, 2-2 tie. Runners at 2nd and 3rd. 3 man crew.
Catcher stands up in catcher's box, right arm extended for an intentional BOB to the batter.
Catcher then steps out of the catcher's box before the pitch is delivered.
No call.
This was clearly an Illegal pitch:
NCAA rule 10.1c:
The catcher must be within the catcher’s box from the time the pitcher steps on the pitcher’s plate until the pitch is released. No part of the catcher’s feet may be outside the lines until the pitch is released.
This was repeated 4 times with no call.
My question is:
Can the BU make this call or is it solely the PU's call? PU and 1st base ump somewhat new; 3rd base is a veteran. They huddled up between innings and perhaps discussed the sitch.
We won the game in the 11th but it should have been over in the 10th.

[JEL]

Should be an IP.

Field Umpires can make that call.

I would not if I were FU.

[AtlUmpSteve]

This would be an illegal pitch if the catcher actually stepped out of the catchers box. But, I have never seen that happen in softball, due to the size of the catchers box. I can only assume either this was a one in a million case, or the catchers box wasn't properly drawn, as it extends to outside of both batters boxes. Easily a catcher can stand behind the opposite batters box and reach out even further for an intentional walk.

As a base umpire, I would never call that, either. It is obviously (to me) the plate umpires call.

[Steve M]

I agree with the others - Base umps MAY make that call - but not if they want to keep working that level. And that catcher must have been eight feet tall if she was able to step out of a properly lined catcher's box.

[emaxos]

According to the diagram and text in the NCAA rulebook, the width of the catcher's box is 8'5", which is equal to the width from both outside limits of batters' boxes.
However, there was no question that the catcher's right foot was clearly outside the right side of the catcher's box/batter's box.
I was more concerned about the no call from the BUs than if the catcher was really out of the box.

[IRISHMAFIA]

This is not the BU's call at any time. If the BU does see this, s/he is NOT doing the job for which they are being compensated.

[Dutch Alex]

In the Netherlands we don't have this problem anymore: Pitcher just say's:"Ump, I'll walk him/her"
No more 4 pitches that must be legally thrown, speed up!

But...

It takes a lot "fun" anway. For example when a batter doesn't want a walk and hits a (bad thrown) "ball" away for a homer...

[debeau]

I wouldnt call it .
Foot clearly out of catchers box and you saw it from where and the base umpires should have seen it .Wow .
I would liken this to hit by batted ball outside the batters box . Unless it is REAL obvious wht BU would call it.
Now I am talking about distance from catcher/batter/plate .
Damn I forgot coaches can see everything !

[Rattlehead]

Question?

If the Point is to walk the batter and the catcher does step out of the box, wouldn't the call of an Illegal pitch be mute?

You are going to award a ball to the batter either due to the fact that the ball was 4 feet out of the strike zone or due to the IP.

Please correct me If I am wrong

[ntxblue]

Originally posted by Rattlehead
Question?

You are going to award a ball to the batter either due to the fact that the ball was 4 feet out of the strike zone or due to the IP.

Please correct me If I am wrong

All runners advance one base with each illegal pitch.

[emaxos]

Runners were at 2nd and 3rd.
With runners on base, an illegal pitch results in an award of runners advancing one base. Bottom of 10th. Runner from 3rd scores, we win.

To respond to debeau:
I'm not a coach at this game (I do rec league).
I am, however, the game announcer and the press table is directly behind home plate (my normal view, unfortunately, is the PU's derriere).
I absolutely saw everything required to make the assertion that she was waaaaaaaay out of the catcher's box.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by emaxos
Runners were at 2nd and 3rd.
With runners on base, an illegal pitch results in an award of runners advancing one base. Bottom of 10th. Runner from 3rd scores, we win.

To respond to debeau:
I'm not a coach at this game (I do rec league).
I am, however, the game announcer and the press table is directly behind home plate (my normal view, unfortunately, is the PU's derriere).
I absolutely saw everything required to make the assertion that she was waaaaaaaay out of the catcher's box.

I think the following is to what debeau was responding:

I was more concerned about the no call from the BUs than if the catcher was really out of the box.

There is no way anyone other than the PU makes this call.

On another view, did the catcher step out of the box prior to the pitcher's initial motion? If so, I believe it may have been "no pitch", not an IP.

[emaxos]

I would say she stepped out about the time the pitcher brought her hands together.

I see how my statement could have been taken differently. Should have said, "There was no question about her stepping out; I was more concerned about the no call from the BUs"

[Dakota]

Originally posted by Rattlehead
wouldn't the call of an Illegal pitch be mute?

Depends, but it shouldn't be. The umpire should always give a verbal "illegal" with the call.

[HM1 Hammonds]

IMO, the key question is "Did the catcher step out of the catcher's box before or after the release of the ball?" And if the catcher stepped out of the box prior to the release is it a "No Pitch" or "Illegal Pitch"?