Would you call OBS?

[greymule]

ASA

Abel on 1B. Baker hits a hard one-hopper to F6, standing
near 2B. Abel trips over F3's foot as F6 is about to step on 2B. F6 then throws to 1B to complete the double play.

Would you call OBS or ignore it as having had no effect on the play?

[Dakota]

Call it. R1 (Abel) back on 1st. BR's (Baker's) out stands.

F3 needs to stay out of the bleeping way.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by Dakota
Call it. R1 (Abel) back on 1st. BR's (Baker's) out stands.

F3 needs to stay out of the bleeping way.

With all due respect to those who practice TPOAD,

call it.

[greymule]

OK.

But Baker would have to be given 1B. If we call the OBS, the ball is dead the moment F6 steps on 2B for the out on Abel. There is no out on Baker. (In the original, I mentioned the double play, but maybe I wasn't clear that F6 did proceed to step on 2B after the OBS.)

[Bagman62]

Able Trips over F3, signal OBS protecting Able between 1N and 2B, I will allow the completion of the play, F6 steps on 2B and throws to 1B to complete apparant double play with Baker out, the play is now over.

Able can not be out and in my judgement. based on you description able would not have made 2B had the obstruction not occured so I place Able on 1B and call Baker out. NOW I LOOK AT POE 35 Page 135

POE 35 addresses the situation where an obstructed runner is awarded a base occupied by a runner then the runner will be awarded the next base. I will make my original call and let the defense keep the out, I guess I was slow calling Dead Ball.

This call will require some good Selling because I guarantee the BU will have visitors.

[Dakota]

Originally posted by greymule
OK.

But Baker would have to be given 1B. If we call the OBS, the ball is dead the moment F6 steps on 2B for the out on Abel. There is no out on Baker. (In the original, I mentioned the double play, but maybe I wasn't clear that F6 did proceed to step on 2B after the OBS.)

Good point; I was too quick to respond & missed that R1 was out. Dead ball at that point, so R1 on 2nd and R2 on 1st. And the next time F3 will stay out of the bleepin' way.

[WestMichBlue]

Wait a minute! Who called obstruction?

First off, I agree with the end result. Obstruction, delayed dead ball, dead ball at the instant obstructed runner is out at 2B, find the B-R and place her at 1B, and, even though you don't think that runner would have made 2B, you have to advance her to 2B because 1B is now occupied.

BUT - BU in "B" has the first play on the infield; therefore you are watching the ground ball, the catch, the taggeD base, and THEN turning to take the throw to 1B. When you are looking at 2B, how did you see a trip over F3's foot only one stride away from 1B?

PU is coming out from behind plate to move to line to follow B-R to 1B. By time he gets out and looks up the trip has already occured.

SO WHO SAW OBSTRUCTION?

WMB

[mcrowder]

Must have been 6-man mechanics, WMB.

I agree that you cannot have an out here if you call OBS. Once a play is made on the obstructed runner (at 2B), the play is DEAD.

Bagman, if I'm your coach in that game, you're damn right it will take a great sales job, since you're calling it wrong. It would take a protest, a possible ejection, and a replay of the game from that point as well... because you would lose that protest.

[Dakota]

Originally posted by mcrowder
Once a play is made on the obstructed runner (at 2B), the play is DEAD.

It doesn't matter when "dead ball" is called, Bagman, because by rule the ball is dead once the runner is put out between the bases where the OBS occurred. It is not a timing play.

[Dakota]

Originally posted by WestMichBlue
SO WHO SAW OBSTRUCTION?

So, are you going to throw cold water on every improbable play we discuss this off season? We might as well shut down the board until November, when we can discuss the ASA rule changes for a couple of days, and then hibernate until spring! (Which, for you - and me - would be a looonnnng time!)

Besides, all you have to do is throw in 3 man mechanics.

[JEL]

SO WHO SAW OBSTRUCTION?

WMB [/B][/QUOTE]


Bet the 1B coach did!

[Bagman62]

Does anyone find the rule covering returning a runner to a PREVIOUS base that is occupied when the runner is called out after being obstructed and in the umpire's judgement the runner would not have made the next base if the obstruction had not occured?

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by WestMichBlue
Wait a minute! Who called obstruction?

First off, I agree with the end result. Obstruction, delayed dead ball, dead ball at the instant obstructed runner is out at 2B, find the B-R and place her at 1B, and, even though you don't think that runner would have made 2B, you have to advance her to 2B because 1B is now occupied.

BUT - BU in "B" has the first play on the infield; therefore you are watching the ground ball, the catch, the taggeD base, and THEN turning to take the throw to 1B. When you are looking at 2B, how did you see a trip over F3's foot only one stride away from 1B?

PU is coming out from behind plate to move to line to follow B-R to 1B. By time he gets out and looks up the trip has already occured.

SO WHO SAW OBSTRUCTION?

WMB

Your giving very little credit to the umpires. Shouldn't the BU be watching the pitcher and the runner out of the corner of his eye?

Once the pitcher releases the ball, I'm taking a glance toward the runner. Once the ball is put into play, being aware of where F3 is positioned in relation to the runner, yep, I'm going to be watching the runner until she clears F3.

The field isn't THAT big that you cannot see this play.

However, someone must have seen it or the question wouldn't exist.

[greymule]

I brought this play up for two reasons. First, I saw a similar play recently and the ump (whom I often partner with) did call OBS to negate what would unquestionably have been an easy force out on a runner. (It was a crazy play in which the runner from 2B actually tripped over the pitcher on his way to 3B. Don't ask.) Anyway, I told him I thought he called it right. Second, in studying a parallel play in baseball, I found that the J/R instructs umpires to ignore the OBS.

It is interesting to me that OBR contains so many plays in which the instructions to umpires are basically either to ignore the rule as written and call the play another way, or to consider a variety of factors nowhere to be found in the rule book (particularly regarding INT, OBS, and missed bases). The commendably consistent philosophy among ASA people seems to be to call the rule as written.

Bagman62: In some cases, you can return the runner to the previous base, but in this case, with Baker safe at 1B, you can't.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by greymule
I brought this play up for two reasons. First, I saw a similar play recently and the ump (whom I often partner with) did call OBS to negate what would unquestionably have been an easy force out on a runner. (It was a crazy play in which the runner from 2B actually tripped over the pitcher on his way to 3B. Don't ask.) Anyway, I told him I thought he called it right. Second, in studying a parallel play in baseball, I found that the J/R instructs umpires to ignore the OBS.

It is interesting to me that OBR contains so many plays in which the instructions to umpires are basically either to ignore the rule as written and call the play another way, or to consider a variety of factors nowhere to be found in the rule book (particularly regarding INT, OBS, and missed bases). The commendably consistent philosophy among ASA people seems to be to call the rule as written.

Bagman62: In some cases, you can return the runner to the previous base, but in this case, with Baker safe at 1B, you can't.

You need to remember that ASA has been very diligent the past decade to keep rules relatively simple and try to avoid scenario-specific rulings. It isn't always possible, but when it is, the rule and enforcement are usually quite simplistic. This helps the players, coaches and officials.

OTOH, many sets of baseball rules tend to get play-specific.