Biting My Tongue

[mcrowder]

My first tournament as District Director for Softball. Championship game. 5th inning (of 5 - 7/8 year olds). Home team undefeated, down 9-0 after 2 innings has tied it up 10-10 with visitor (1 loss). Visitor scores 2 in the top of the 5th.

Runners on 1st and 2nd, 1 out. Grounder to the pitcher, as pitcher is throwing to third, shortstop is blatantly in the way of R1 going to third, tries at the last second to get out of the way, and moves in the same direction as the runner who tried at the last second to get around her. They crash, BIG.

Umpire (who had called a very good game until this point) rules her out at third. Coaches go BALLISTIC. Fans go ballistic. Tourney director looks at me with an "Oh, No!" look on his face. Coaches manage to not get ejected (partially due to fantastic restraint by my umpire), but umpire stands by his call.

Hardest thing I ever did not saying a word.

Thank goodness the very next batter hits it past the outfielders and rounds the bases to win the game. I would have felt AWFUL if they'd lost the game because of a missed obstruction call.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by mcrowder

Thank goodness the very next batter hits it past the outfielders and rounds the bases to win the game. I would have felt AWFUL if they'd lost the game because of a missed obstruction call.

Did the umpire just not see it or was it a misinterpretation?

Key word is MISSED. It happens, there is no way around it short of a 4-umpire crew.

[mcrowder]

I didn't get a chance to discuss it between games, they rolled right into the 9-10 tourney, while I was handing out trophies.

I am curious as to what he saw, and coach never protested - so maybe he truly didn't see anything. However, it was right at the focus of the play unless umpire was extremely zeroed in on third base with no peripheral vision at all.

[bluezebra]

"My first tournament as District Director for Softball. Championship game. 5th inning (of 5 - 7/8 year olds). Home team undefeated, down 9-0 after 2 innings has tied it up 10-10 with visitor (1 loss). Visitor scores 2 in the top of the 5th."

The perfect example why NOT to alter your strike zone.

[CecilOne]

Originally posted by IRISHMAFIA

Did the umpire just not see it or was it a misinterpretation?

Key word is MISSED. It happens, there is no way around it short of a 4-umpire crew.

I hope you are not saying a 4 umpire crew never misses a call. You watch enough MLB to know better. Oh, never mind, you meant 4 softball umpires.

[DownTownTonyBrown]

Originally posted by mcrowder
...Runners on 1st and 2nd, 1 out. Grounder to the pitcher, as pitcher is throwing to third, shortstop is blatantly in the way of R1 going to third, tries at the last second to get out of the way, and moves in the same direction as the runner who tried at the last second to get around her. They crash, BIG.

Umpire (who had called a very good game until this point) rules her out at third. ...

Sounds like this was a pretty sure force-out if there hadn't been any collision...

Who instigated the collision? You used the word "blatantly" does that mean F6 was trying to obstruct? You also say both tried to avoid the collision.

Guess I would have had to have been there but did this runner have a chance of being safe (if there were no collision)? I don't think runners of this age would intentionally run at a fielder but perhaps the runner instigated the collision? I'm certain older players would create this collision hoping that an umpire would call them safe due to obstruction on a sure force-out.

Perhaps your umpire made an excellent call!

Just some thoughts.

[Robmoz]

Based on your sitch descript, I am standing strong with my blue brother......Call the out, no obstruction. Play to the pitcher who throws to 3B sure seems like NO chance for R1 to make it to 3B anyways.

I manage obstruction as protecting the runner but I always consider the possibility of what I "think" might happen had the contact NOT occurred. I don't try to be a crystal ball psychic but I will try to quickly make a judgement that makes sense to me within the spirit of the rules.

Sometimes the sitch is so easy to interpret that the call truely speaks for itself without question.....i.e. had the ball been hit to F5 sharply at the bag do you call the F6 obstruction, prob not at least I surely don't. JMHO

[WestMichBlue]

"......Call the out, no obstruction. Play to the pitcher who throws to 3B sure seems like NO chance for R1 to make it to 3B anyways."


I disagree, Rob. Runner was obstructed by F6. Very clear in MC's description. Doesn't matter whether runner would have made it to 3B, the rules do not allow you to call an obstructed runner out between the bases which she was obstructed. No judgment allowed.

Only when the runner goes past the next base can you use your judgment as to allow an out to stand.


WMB

[TexBlue]

Originally posted by WestMichBlue

I disagree, Rob. Runner was obstructed by F6. Very clear in MC's description. Doesn't matter whether runner would have made it to 3B, the rules do not allow you to call an obstructed runner out between the bases which she was obstructed. No judgment allowed.

Only when the runner goes past the next base can you use your judgment as to allow an out to stand.


WMB

Ah, but you can call an out here. The umpire never called obstruction. Even after talking (loose description) to the coaches, he did not make an OBS call. Therefore, the out would stand. In his/her judgement, it was a train wreck apparently and made their call. And, in this case, MC's opionion don't count. He wasn't the BU. You know the view is better outside the fence than on the bases. Just kiddin' ya, MC. You gotta love this game, you just never know!

[whiskers_ump]

Rob,

I agree with WMB:

Runners on 1st and 2nd, 1 out. Grounder to the pitcher, as pitcher is throwing to third, shortstop is blatantly in the way of R1 going to third, tries at the last second to get out of the way, and moves in the same direction as the runner who tried at the last second to get around her. They crash, BIG.

Definately sounds like OBS. I realize you are talking 7/8
year olds here, but if you are using umpires, the call needs
to be made. Poster did not say what rules were being used,
such as NSA, ASA, etc. The described case does sounds
like OBS. F6 impeded the progress on the runner advancing.
Not sure what was meant by "blatantly".

[mcrowder]

You can't make up rules, folks. If she was obstructed, she's safe. Doesn't matter whether she had a prayer of reaching base safely without the obstruction.

And after discussing with him, it turns out he felt the same way you did - he told me he saw the obstruction but didn't feel like there was any chance she would have beaten the throw. We went through the book afterward - and he now understands the rule. Should have been awarded 3rd.

[LMan]

...so I'm guessing you are firmly in the 'dont change one another's judgment calls' camp? Oops, sorry, wrong thread

[Robmoz]

Okay, I have been convinced that my thought was misguided. I will recognize the rule as written regarding OBS. I like it simple, this is simple. Thanks.

[Larry Wolfe]

OR, return her to second if she clearly would not safely reach third. Just can not call an out when obstructed.

[Homer]

Originally posted by Larry Wolfe
OR, return her to second if she clearly would not safely reach third. Just can not call an out when obstructed.

Ya' do that and under mcrowder's situation, you've got two runners on 2nd!

"Runners on 1st and 2nd, 1 out."

Try straightening THAT one out. :-)