Overthrow on deflection + "assumed" BR position

[bobbrix]

Hi again, Folks,

My 2nd question from an occurrence on the weekend ... similar to the last one about a ball deflecting off a glove and going out of play. This time, though, it was on a thrown ball.


(No base ump.)

Runner on 1st, batter hits a long ground ball past the right fielder (F9).

IÂ’m thinking F9 is going to throw to 2nd and IÂ’m more or less already trailing/watching this very speedy lead runner, expecting her to make it to third and stop, with a possible throw to 2nd or 3rd.

I glance at F9 and she is just getting the ball into her hands, the lead runner is on 2nd and holding for F9 now.

F9 surprises everyone by throwing to 1st !! The ball is a little high, glances off F3Â’s glove and rolls out of play.

I call time when the ball goes out of play.

At the time of the throw, IÂ’m sure the lead runner had reached 2nd, but wasnÂ’t sure about that batter-runner who ran right through first without trying to advance to 2nd.

So, I gave the lead runner two bases from 2nd, so sheÂ’s home. No argument there.

I ‘suggest’ the batter-runner was now a runner (I’m about 90% sure she was at 1st at the time of the throw) and so give her 3rd base. (Some argument there, although the coach was saying something about the BR not making an attempt to go to 2nd.)

Two questions:

1) Was it a bad decision to award the 3rd base when I didnÂ’t actually pick up the BRÂ’s position at the time of the throw?

2) Technically, is it still called an “overthrow” when the ball deflects off a glove and goes out of play ?

Or, should I have given her two bases from the time of the pitch, since F3 never had possession, but the ball went “out of play unintentionally off a fielder” ?


As always, thanks for any and all feedback.


... bobbrix

[greymule]

1) Was it a bad decision to award the 3rd base when I didnÂ’t actually pick up the BRÂ’s position at the time of the throw?

2) Technically, is it still called an “overthrow” when the ball deflects off a glove and goes out of play ?

1. It's hard to believe that the BR had not reached 1B by the time the throw left F9's hand. Award 3B.

2. Yes. However, ASA does stipulate that if a fielder loses control of a ball (rather than throws it), runners get 1 base from where the are at the time the ball goes out of play.

Example: Abel in a rundown between 1B and 2B. He slides back into 1B and knocks the ball loose from F3's glove. Ball goes into DBT. Abel gets 2B. If F4 had thrown the ball past F3 as Abel returned to 1B, Abel would get 3B.

I once had a play where a runner was on 2B with no outs, and the BR hit a ground ball to F6, who reached out to tag the runner going to 3B. The runner's knee knocked the ball loose, and it shot past 3B and out of play. The runner hadn't made it to 3B when the ball went out of play, so he got 3B only. I gave the batter 1B, but that was a guess since it was a one-man game and I didn't see how far he had advanced.

(OBR calls that play differently.)