Tag, no tag, throw to first

[FUBLUE]

Here's one from my game saturday.

R1 at 1B, no outs. Slow ground ball hit between F3 and F4, F4 fields it. F4 attempts to tag R1, but misses, then throws to first. BU calls "no tag, safe" then "out" to the throw at first base (all within a second of each other).

R1 rounds second then starts to trot off the field. Coach yells to go back. Fortunately no one was smart enough to tag R1 but if they had been, what would you have done? Call her out, or put her back on second because she though you said she was out?

[JEL]

I think I would call her OUT after the tag. If coach heard and understood SAFE call, R1 should have also.

I had similar sitch in rec 14U. Runners 2nd & 3rd, 0 outs, batters hits high easy fly ball to F4 who drops ball. Both runners advanced, and BR reaches 1B safely. Offensive coach yells at BR (now at 1B), "You're out, that was an infield fly" girl starts walking towards dugout. I should have left it, but I told runner "nobody called an infield fly". Should have waited til girl entered dugout, then announced her "OUT". Coach would have then wondered why, (he was sort of being obnoxious), that would have been fun!

[Little Jimmy]

It's up to the coaches to coach and in your scenario the coach instructed his player to go back to second. A tag would have been an out.

[TexBlue]

Yep, you fulfilled your duties by saying no tag, safe. If she thought she was out, you might want to rethink the call. Maybe she felt something you didn't see. If she gets tagged off the base, she's out. You ain't her guardian angel.

[Dakota]

Originally posted by FUBLUE
BU calls "no tag, safe" then "out" to the throw at first base (all within a second of each other).

To answer your question, the runner would have been out with the tag.

However, I do not like the BU's call mechanic.

Following the same reasoning that we don't verbalize FAIR, you should not verbalize "NO TAG"; merely SAFE is sufficient. The problem with "NO TAG" is it is too easy for the runner to hear "noTAG".

Use the word TAG only when there WAS a tag. Not when there wasn't.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by Dakota

To answer your question, the runner would have been out with the tag.

However, I do not like the BU's call mechanic.

Following the same reasoning that we don't verbalize FAIR, you should not verbalize "NO TAG"; merely SAFE is sufficient. The problem with "NO TAG" is it is too easy for the runner to hear "noTAG".

Use the word TAG only when there WAS a tag. Not when there wasn't.

Actually, the runner isn't SAFE until they reach the base, so you really don't have anything.

I'm sure the umpire was doing what they thought best. I believe a better mechanic may have been, "Out! (after the play at 1B), safe at second!" If the runner was not touched, there would be no reason for them not to proceed and stay at 2B, so there is no real urgency in that call.

[FUBLUE]

Mike

I understand the "out" then "safe" thing, but shouldn't there be a "no" or "no tag" call so everyone knows there wasn't a tag? If that isn't said, then the only two people who really know there is/isn't a tag are the runner and the fielder.

Interested to see your opinion...you are "a master".

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by FUBLUE
Mike

I understand the "out" then "safe" thing, but shouldn't there be a "no" or "no tag" call so everyone knows there wasn't a tag? If that isn't said, then the only two people who really know there is/isn't a tag are the runner and the fielder.

Interested to see your opinion...you are "a master".

If you don't call the runner out, is there really a need to say anything else which can do no more than confuse the runner? Why does "everyone" need to know anything at that point in time? Remember, the umpire has a continuing play with which to deal.

The only person who really needs to know is the runner, and if there was no tag, are they not going to continue to play?

If the defense doesn't hear an out call, will they not continue to play as if the runner is still active? Now, if you want to try to prevent a visit by the defensive coach, the call could be, "Out!, turn an point toward runner on 2B, "No tag, SAFE!" Can't guarantee you will not get a visit, but you never know.

Of course, this is based on players supposedly knowing what the proper reaction should be based on the situation.

[FUBLUE]

Originally posted by IRISHMAFIA

If you don't call the runner out, is there really a need to say anything else which can do no more than confuse the runner? Why does "everyone" need to know anything at that point in time? Remember, the umpire has a continuing play with which to deal.

The only person who really needs to know is the runner, and if there was no tag, are they not going to continue to play?

If the defense doesn't hear an out call, will they not continue to play as if the runner is still active? Now, if you want to try to prevent a visit by the defensive coach, the call could be, "Out!, turn an point toward runner on 2B, "No tag, SAFE!" Can't guarantee you will not get a visit, but you never know.

Of course, this is based on players supposedly knowing what the proper reaction should be based on the situation.

NICE!

[Dakota]

Originally posted by IRISHMAFIA
Now, if you want to try to prevent a visit by the defensive coach, the call could be, "Out!, turn an point toward runner on 2B, "No tag, SAFE!"

I'm neither a clinician nor a UIC, so with all due respect, I still disagree with using the word "TAG" in the negative.

[FUBLUE]

Originally posted by Dakota

I'm neither a clinician nor a UIC, so with all due respect, I still disagree with using the word "TAG" in the negative.

What if we just say "NO!"

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by Dakota

I'm neither a clinician nor a UIC, so with all due respect, I still disagree with using the word "TAG" in the negative.

No problem. As I stated, it is just a bit preventive umpiring. Note though that my proposed use is AFTER the play followed by an sell-safe. Not much room at that point for misinterpretation.

[Dakota]

Originally posted by IRISHMAFIA
Note though that my proposed use is AFTER the play followed by an sell-safe. Not much room at that point for misinterpretation.

OIC - I missed that.