BOO?

[mcrowder]

That's nuts. Batting out of order is not a substitution, much less an illegal one.

[CecilOne]

The nub of all this is the rule (2.57.2 in NFHS) that is a rule for the special case of the FLEX and its counterpart for the DP. Those positions are special cases, governed by a special rule even though other players are not. That means that any offense by the player who is FLEX, other than replacing the DP, is illegal substitution.

Even if it does not seem consistent to say FLEX for B1 is illegal substitution and B5 batting for B3 is not, it is correct because the rule is written that way for the special cases of FLEX and DP.

NFHS and ASA have different penalties for illegal subs, but the key is identifying whether it is, then worrying about DQ vs. RTB and out or not, etc.

[CecilOne]

Originally posted by mcrowder
That's nuts. Batting out of order is not a substitution, much less an illegal one.

Unless it is an illegal reentry.
Ann is B1, Betty is B2, Clarissa, Dorothy, Eveline, et al follow. Sally is reported as sub for Ann and bats.

Ann thought Sally batted for Irene (B9), the coach is ordering a hot dog, so Ann bats after Sally. Sally batted in the B1 slot, so Ann is now in the B2 slot. Then Betty, Clarissa, et al continue the progression they have used all through the game. Each player starting with Ann bats in a different position of the batting order than they started in, so they are illegal reentries. With 10 of them doing that, even Sally is an illegal reentry the next time if it continues that long.

[Dakota]

Actually, the only thing inconsistent about FLEX coming to bat for someone other than the DP is that the FLEX is not entering the game.

NFHS rules state that when you have a sub entering the game in an illegal position in the batting order, that the illegal sub penalty takes precedence over the BOO penalty (e.g. S1 was the sub earlier for B5, and is reentering the game; she mistakenly comes to bat when B4 is due up; according to NFHS, this is not to be considered a sub for B5 batting out of order, but an illegal sub for B4).

Of course, to keep this from happening, all the coach / player has to do is announce the substitution; a pro-active umpire will look at his lineup card and tell the coach he can't do that now.

[whiskers_ump]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by mick
[B]

Originally posted by IRISHMAFIA

Mike,
I noted ASA, but I kicked it. If you say FLEX is DQ'd, I cannot argue because my ASA book, where ever it is, has 2002 written on the cover.

My answer should have been noted for NFHS, which is the subject of the thread.

.
In Fed, an illegal player is disqualified by:

• Being ejected
• Having no re-entry
• By being missing from the roster

mick

Mick,

If I have interpreted your word usage of "roster" correctly,
then this player may not be disqualified.
The lineup card would be the only roster I, as an umpire, would
be involved with for NFHS.
NFHS Rule 3-3-1 A player, who is not listed as an eligible
sub on the lineup card, shall not be prohibited from playing.

[mick]

Originally posted by whiskers_ump

Mick,

If I have interpreted your word usage of "roster" correctly,
then this player may not be disqualified.
The lineup card would be the only roster I, as an umpire, would
be involved with for NFHS.
NFHS Rule 3-3-1 A player, who is not listed as an eligible
sub on the lineup card, shall not be prohibited from playing.
[/B]

...pickin' someone up, off the street.
mick

[whiskers_ump]

Legal,

Just tell the Blue you left her off the lineup card.