What do you do?

[Little Jimmy]

When your're the field ump, what do you do when you see the plate ump ignore the courtesy runner rules? Today I worked with a guy ( a good guy overall ) who kept no record of who courtesy ran for who and as a result one runner took the place of both the pitcher and the catcher throughout the game. I paid attention because the coach tried to do this when I was working plate for his team last year and I corrected him a few times. I don't really know where the boundries should be when field guy sees plate guy misinterpret/ignore things. And tomorrow I work with someone else who will do the same thing ( he did it last year ).

I just wonder the proper etiquette is. I have mentioned it in the past ( in between innings..."hey, didn"t that girl run for someone different last inning?") but I usually get something like "it really doesn"t make any difference" and we move on.

It bugs me but I don't want to be a pain in the *** to my fellow blues. Any comments?

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by Little Jimmy
When your're the field ump, what do you do when you see the plate ump ignore the courtesy runner rules? Today I worked with a guy ( a good guy overall ) who kept no record of who courtesy ran for who and as a result one runner took the place of both the pitcher and the catcher throughout the game. I paid attention because the coach tried to do this when I was working plate for his team last year and I corrected him a few times. I don't really know where the boundries should be when field guy sees plate guy misinterpret/ignore things. And tomorrow I work with someone else who will do the same thing ( he did it last year ).

I just wonder the proper etiquette is. I have mentioned it in the past ( in between innings..."hey, didn"t that girl run for someone different last inning?") but I usually get something like "it really doesn"t make any difference" and we move on.

It bugs me but I don't want to be a pain in the *** to my fellow blues. Any comments?

What makes you think you are being a pain in the ***? You are just applying the rules you know to be accurate.

[Rachel]

It does make a difference. A smart defensive coach will get an out there. Stop it when you see it. I'd call time and talk to my plate ump.

[buddha69]

I think it depends on the league, I maybe wrong on this. Here we have a courtesy runner, one for every inning.

[Daryl H. Long]

Don't be afraid to bring this to the attention of plate umpire. If you notice, call time and say "Fred, we need a different courtesy runner. # 22 already ran for the pitcher and cannot run for the catcher." (Rule 8-9-1)

The penalty is sttep if you do not prevent this from happening. As Rachel said the illegal substitute is daclared out and ALSO is restricted to the dugout for the remainder of the game. Rule 3-4-1 Penalty.

After the game you may want to politely talk about the situation and if partner does not know the rule and WANTS to learn go over the above mentioned rules to show how important it is for the plate umpire to record ALL substitutions per Rule 3-3...The plate umpire SHALL record all subtitutions on the line-up card.....

Of course, if your partner doesn't want to discuss anything then walk away and hope either he/she gets a better attitude toward umpiring or does everyone a favor and quits.

[Little Jimmy]

I guess the point is that over the last couple of years I've come to identify a few fellow blues who pick and choose the rules they want to enforce. I have brought it to their attention but when they brush it off as a minor thing, there's not a lot to do. They're the vets. I'm still "new" (3rd year in this org.). I could refuse to work with them in the future but I would be limiting myself also ( small organization, clear pecking order). If I want to do high school ball this is the route.

I'm not painting a totally bad picture. The majority of our members are good, solid umps. I guess I'm just venting.

[whiskers_ump]

Originally posted by buddha69
I think it depends on the league, I maybe wrong on this. Here we have a courtesy runner, one for every inning.

buddha69,

That would be for local leagues. Most associations though
apply the written rule for CR's. Some associations are a
little different, they allow the last out. ASA, AFA, NHFS
utilize the same rule. I like NCAA's rule. You play, you
run, unless sub'd for.

[WestMichBlue]

"I guess the point is that over the last couple of years I've come to identify a few fellow blues who pick and choose the rules they want to enforce."

At this point this isn't a rule your partner is ignoring. The reason umpires keep track of lineup changes is to prevent a coach from violating the rules. It's called Preventative Umpiring when you tell a coach, "No, you can't make that change." Your partner is guilty of poor preventative umpiring.

What might be interesting is what he would do if the Defensive Coach appealed for a call on an illegal substitute. Would he refuse to make the call? That would sure create a hullabaloo! Would he call the out and kick the girl out of the game? Then, rightfully so he could expect to hear from the Offensive Coach, " How in *!&# can you allow an illegal sub into the game and then turn around and kick her out!"

You might run the above scenario across your partner in the parking lot and see how he chooses to react.

Finally, you are capable of preventative umpiring from the BU post. You can call time and inform your partner and the O Coach that the change is illegal.

Might be a chance for education for both partner and coach has have a history of violating the CR rule. Tell the Coach the rule, and the penalty if the D Coach appeals. I assume the coach is probably on the field so you make sure at least one defensive player hears you.

Obviously you are showing up your partner here. Only do this after all other efforts to get the situation corrected have failed. However, your primary responsibility is to the game, not your partner.

WMB

[Yeggman]

In the local girls FP leagues I'm working where everyone bats, what about ASA rule 8-10-C which says courtesy runner must be someone who has not participated in the game in any capacity?

Does this mean I should not allow any courtesy runners, or would this be a league rule I need to find out about during pre-game?

yeggman

[Dakota]

Originally posted by Yeggman
In the local girls FP leagues I'm working where everyone bats, what about ASA rule 8-10-C which says courtesy runner must be someone who has not participated in the game in any capacity?

Does this mean I should not allow any courtesy runners, or would this be a league rule I need to find out about during pre-game?

yeggman

You need to find out the league rule. Most of the time, when leagues adopt the "everybody bats" rule they haven't thought through all of the implications, so there may not be anything written regarding CR.

I have called "everybody bats" leagues / tournament where they specifically said the CR would be the last out. I've called otheres where they specifically said no CR's would be allowed (although this was in a tournament where the coaches had the choice of standard sub rules or everybody bats/unlimited defensive subs/noCRs.)

If there is nothing in writing, then I would say so at the plate meeting to both coaches, and tell them that if there are no objections, I will be allowing "last out" as a CR to speed up the game. If one coach objects, though, then I would fall back to the written rule book - no CRs since everybody is by rule "in the game."

[SWFLguy]

In relation to this subject---
I just realized that a "trips" card I bought
has a place for courtesy runner's numbers
on the reverse side.
cool