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Mon Apr 05, 2004, 01:45pm
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I was talking to a friend/umpire of mine who registered with one of the umpire associations in the NE side of Ft Worth with ASA, last year. He told me that he decided not to call ball for them due to the distance he had to drive and some scheduling issues, I didn't ask what.
The association told him if they caught him calling for anyone else besides them (his primary) they would get him banned from calling at all. Now, I had my doubts, but another ump said he knew of a guy who had the same problem about 20 years ago and they banned him for the rest of the year. When he complained about it, his group banned him for 3 more years. Do the State UIC's actually allow something this petty to go on? Does the ump have a chance to talk to anyone about this, in his defense? It seems like you wouldn't want to run off an umpire just because he didn't want to drive so far, or couldn't get there in time for the games to start. Just wondering if anyone has any input on this as to whether it goes on or not. I can see an umpire getting banned for several reason ( fighting, unprofessional behavior, etc. ) I just don't think I can follow any logic that says " I can do it. so therefore, I will" if a guy/gal decides they would rather call closer to home.
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Rick 
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Mon Apr 05, 2004, 03:01pm
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Quote:
Would I prefer an umpire stay loyal to my organization? Sure, why wouldn't I. Would I hold it against him for working another organization? Not to the point of not working him/her at all. Now, before everyone jumps up and down on that one, the only time that I would take an umpire doing Brand X of ball as opposed to mine would be when it came to decision time on sending someone away or making a similar recommendation. ALL THINGS BEING EQUAL BETWEEN TWO UMPIRES in question, I am going to reward an umpire for their loyalty. That's not to say that I would ever try to hold back anyone who did work Brand X, but there must be some reward for loyalty to an organization. And that, in turn, does not mean I would send an unqualified umpire away just because they were loyal, they must still be qualified.
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The bat issue in softball is as much about liability, insurance and litigation as it is about competition, inflated egos and softball.
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Mon Apr 05, 2004, 03:34pm
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Yeah, Mike, I was kinda hoping you'd jump in on this one. I don't care what the politics are, or who's doing it, as long as I can still have fun on a field somewhere.
And I agree wholeheartedly with everything you said in your post. You Yankees might be OK, after all.  Loyalty does count, a lot. I just don't understand why someone thinks they are bigger than the game. If you don't like someone, if they aren't any good, whatever reason is used, just don't use the guy anymore. I don't see any reason why they should be able to singlehandedly decide this umpire is to call no more in the Metroplex. Heck, I wouldn't want an umpire to call for me or with me, if they didn't want to. If I read your post right and kinda loosely interpreting it, there is no written policy about banning an umpire without a review of some sort?
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Rick
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Mon Apr 05, 2004, 07:08pm
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Quote:
If your friend wanted to join a different association, and he won't be doing games regularly for the NE Ft Worth one, how/why are they still his "primary"? ASA has agreed in writing to take no retribution against umpires who choose to double / triple register with different sanctioning bodies. There is a big difference between putting your friend at the bottom of the assignment list vs trying to get him "banned." I don't think this association has a legal leg to stand on, but that doesn't mean their threat couldn't be made real through the "old boys" network.
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Tom
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Mon Apr 05, 2004, 07:24pm
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Article 311
02. Registered umpires become members of ASA on a voluntary basis and agree to be governed by the Code, rules and regulations of the ASA. Registration by an umpire does not establish an employer/employee relationship and no umpire is considered an employee of ASA or the local association, but is instead acting as an independent contractor. 05. Umpire membership may be declined or revoked for unethical, immoral or unprofessional conduct. Before declining or revoking membership, the umpire must be given the same hearing procedure afforded a team or team member as set forth in Article 505, Disqualification of this Code. Article 505 DISQUALIFICATION. A. Acts of Disqualification. A team, team member, manager, team official or umpire may be disqualified for any of the following: 01. Unsportsmanlike conduct. 02. Physical violence, such as an attack on an umpire or tournament official immediately preceding, during or immediately following a game. 03. Commission of fraud, such as playing under an assumed name, falsifying an affidavit or roster or giving false information to tournament officials. 04. Participating when they do not meet the eligibility requirements of the ASA. 05. Knowingly competing with or against individuals or teams which are disqualified from ASA play. 06. Commission of any act while participating in ASA activities such as: failure to pay indebtedness, destruction of property, violation of state or local laws or any other acts that are contrary to the objectives and purposes of ASA. 07. Violation of ASA substance abuse policies and procedures. 08. Forfeiting a game in championship play E. Additional Penalties. A team, team member, manager, team official or umpire may be disqualified for a period of time for violations outlined in Article 505 ( A ) at the sole discretion of the commissioner in the association where the offense occurred. However, the following acts of disqualification require a minimum of one-year loss of eligibility: 01. Physical violence. 02. Commission of fraud. 03. Competing knowingly with or against disqualified players. These are a few causes for disqualification of an umpire. As you can see, working for other associations is not mentioned at any point in ASA code. As a ASA UIC, I have been told in no uncertain terms that I cannot hold what an umpire does on their own time against them. That's fine by me. I know that there have been UICs told by their commissioners to ban umpires who work other games for other organizations and they are depending on the umpire to not follow with a complaint.
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The bat issue in softball is as much about liability, insurance and litigation as it is about competition, inflated egos and softball.
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Mon Apr 05, 2004, 08:04pm
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Mike,
I was told here in East Texas, that if I was called to do ASA games, then even if committed to another associations at the time of the event, that they, the powers what am, would pull my card. Well, it came about, however, I still had my card and was selected to a State B 16U tournament last year. I accepted and went. This year at the ASA meet the problem never came up. I am active with 5 other associations. If called and I accept the assignment, I do not back out even if the next offer is just a little bit better. (If I accept a 12U tournament and later in week I am called to do an 18U qualifier, I turn it down.) Most of the associations have sent tournament schedules in advance. That way I choose/accept and forget the rest.
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glen _______________________________ "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover." --Mark Twain.
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Tue Apr 06, 2004, 06:19am
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Mike, Glen and Dakota, maybe I used the wrong term. This umpire signed up with an ASA group of umpires. "Blue" wanted to call in a city closer to home, calling ASA games. It wasn't USSSA, Dixie, AFA, PONY, etc. "Blue" just wanted ASA games closer to home. That's when they told "Blue" they would ban this person. They weren't talking about from their association, they meant the ASA certification would be voided and "Blue" couldn't call ASA qualifiers or regular ASA tournaments at all. This blue just went to another group of ASA umpires and wanted to call with them. "Blue" was told absolutely not.
From what Mike posted, it was all what is known as B......, uh, well, nonsense. While they might have had the political pull to do this, I don't think they could justify what they threatened with any guidelines from ASA.
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Rick
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Tue Apr 06, 2004, 06:29am
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OK, here's my two pesos worth. (ok, maybe 100 pesos).
I happen to have quite a few umpires who are also members of other associations. I do not ban them from ASA games. But, like Mike said, when tournament selections roll around, I do reward the loyal ones. That's not to say that if an umpire works for different associations, he/she won't get any tournament assignments. Just means that if two umpires are equally qualified, then the nod would fall on loyalty. Besides, if I was to ban all umpires for working outside ASA, I wouldn't have any umpires left. Mike, is there a code that talks about ASA umpires who register with an ASA association outside their place of residence/work? For example, an umpire from an East Coast ASA association who tries to register with an ASA association from the West Coast? Please let me know about this one.
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Tue Apr 06, 2004, 07:51am
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Quote:
C. Registration. 01. An umpire may register through the local association commissioner where he resides or works either as an umpire or in his regular occupation.
__________________
The bat issue in softball is as much about liability, insurance and litigation as it is about competition, inflated egos and softball.
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Tue Apr 06, 2004, 08:17am
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Quote:
But, aren't we using the term "association" in two different ways here? "Umpire Association" - to mean a somewhat loose organization of independent contactors formed to facilitate getting game assignments, conducting training, etc., for those umpires who join. "ASA Local Association" - to mean the state or metro association recognizied by ASA as the sanctioning body for the local area. Or, as the ASA Code puts it, Quote:
And, as far as ASA is concerned, they don't care which, if any, Umpire Associations this umpire joins. If an Umpire Association tries to prohibit an umpire from getting game assignements for ASA games because their nose is out of joint that he left them for a different Umpire Association (or splits his time between two or more), I would guess a complaint to the local ASA Commissioner could get this Umpire Assoication in a bit of hot water. At least, that is how I see it, but I am happy to admit that I tend to stay out of softball politics as best I can. BTW, I also follow Glen's practice - once I accept a game / tournament, I will not drop it for "greener pastures." But, that is just personal integrity.
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Tom
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Tue Apr 06, 2004, 09:41am
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Great discussion y'all (to use a term from my southern relatives). I'm glad to see politics happen everywhere.
Several years ago, when I was starting out, I just wanted to call games...get some experience. So I, living just outside a METRO association, contacted the UIC of this METRO association. That individual asked me where I lived, I told him, and he said, "I'll register you, but you'll never work inside the METRO area...I only use umpires that live inside the county." I, being the kind of guy that I am, said "fine, I'll go somewhere else." And I did. I found out later how POLITICAL the metro association was...rumor is the UIC would send himself to a national every year. For a fact, I know of two years in a row where one guy went to two different nationals EACH YEAR. And it wasn't like they didn't have qualified umpires, just sent the ones on the "A" list. Two years later, that METRO organization folded and was combined with the state organization. This UIC had nothing to do with the State organization for a couple of years...bad feelings or something. All of the sudden all these unknown, "B" list umpires from the former METRO are working state tournaments and national tournaments...and getting great reviews. Two years ago, the former METRO UIC was looking for umpires to work games he was assigning for (still assigned umpires at two large complexes). He asked me to do games, and I said, "send me a schedule, and I'll let you know if I'm open." He responded, "No, I don't let umpires pick and choose. I'll assign you dates, and you take all of them or none of them." I said, "none of them." Best decision I ever made. He e-mailed this year looking for some college game coverage. I told him I could do two of the five dates, but was closed on two others, and didn't want to drive five hours for a game (and I couldn't get the day off of work, anyway). He told me, "I'll let you know." A month passes, no call. I e-mailed to close the dates, and filled them with other games. No response. Best decision ever made.
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