How can you score a runner from third? There was not runner on third at the TOP. Says runners were on 2nd and 1st when ball 4 went out of play. I have bases loaded, no score.

Re: TROLL ALERT
 

Troll or not, I just sent an EMail to the author of the article, inquiring if something was missing.....

Re: TROLL ALERT
 

______________________________________

Scottk_61,

That was my very first post, then I decided, No, maybe
this guy/gal is serious, so I started my post over and
just answered the question. I have tried TBOonline.com
very way I can think of and see nothing related to
softball.

Hmmm,,,,
 

I don't know about scoots34 or the supposed article online but:

There was a ruling down here for a game in the Tampa area that happened pretty much as scoots34 posted.

The umpires ruled:
Ball four, no swing when appealed.
Batter gets first base which forces R1 and R2 to second and third.
Then the award for the ball going out of play, which is one base.
The ruling has been upheld
We all need to apply the rulings for each award and teh situation instead of stopping at just one.
I believe the rule is 8-4-3c and d under the NFHS rules, I don't have my book handy.
It is unusual to have a dual award but it does happen on rare occasions.
I wonder how many other award rulings I have missed because I stoped at the first penalty application?

Lots of people from ASA Fed and NCAA with many many years of umpiring experience looked at this and all ruled the same thing when presented with the situation.

I have to admit, I thought this was it but waited to see what others said.

On a second note, who is scoots34? and why did they try to deceive us yesterday?

I emailed
 

I emailed the author.
Seems like that was what happened.

The only way I can see the two base award would be if after the "deflection", F2 actually knocked the ball out of play while trying to retrieve it.

Too bad the coach didn't know the rule either. Although FL does not allow protests, if she had brought it to the umpire's attention (in a timely fasion, of course), maybe they would have realized the mistake.

Re: I emailed
 

you have to remember, it is not a two base award,
it is two single base awards
One for ball four that moves the runner to third on the force then the single base award for the ball being thrown out of play.
This is how it was explained to me.

Question?
the author responded to you?
I couldn't get an email though to them

Re: Hmmm,,,,
 

My book reads something like this:

""Rule 8-4-3:.. a runner is entitled to advance without liability to be put out
when:...(c)(FP) a wild pitch or passed ball lodges in or goes under, over or
thru a backstop.
PENALTY: The ball is dead and all runners are awarded one base only. The batter
is awarded first base only on the fourth ball."

Read the penalty comment under (c).

And that is the way I've always understood it...

Re: Re: Hmmm,,,,
 

Under the penalty,
this is problem with so many people not understanding grammer
The batter gets first base on teh fouth ball only, not on ball two or ball three.
It doesn't say the batter only gets first base on ball four which would require a comma after the word only in your quote.

so goes the explanation

My 2 cents.

How can you award runners and a batter any bases on a DEAD ball leaving the field of play?

The second the pitched ball hits the batter, it is dead. I don't care if it bounces to Mars, you cannot award any more bases other than what is permissible for a HBP, even in Federation ball.

Maybe I am seeing this all wrong, but here is what I have
now.

<i>R1 on 2nd and R2 on 1st. 3 balls no strikes on B1. Next pitch is ball four and deflects off catchers helment and goes out of play. Umpire awards R1 home and R2 third and B1 1B on ball four. Doe the runners advance to 2nd 3rd on the ball four and then to home and third due to the ball going out of play? Your comments are appreciated.</i>

There is no award to BR, it was ball four. She goes to
1B, Ball goes out of play. R1 and R2 had both advanced
because of ball four on the batter. Since at TOP, R1 was
on 2nd and R2 on 1st, I would not award either another
base.

Shoot me if I am wrong.

[/B][/QUOTE]

Mike, Mike,

The ball hit the catcher's helment.

BANG!

(Just kidding)

So..you have bases loaded. Then that is the correct interpretation of this play.

Scott,

Not sure it is the correct interp, but it is what
I have until I see a ruling more concrete.

Okay..then at least we are thinking the same way here. Is that a better way to put it?

Re: Hmmm,,,,
 

I don't know, but it sure has us on the go to find a correct
ruling for this play.