Slow Pitch Stealing

Val97AK · #1 (**permalink**) Wed Mar 17, 2004, 08:24pm

Rule 7, Section 4-B states, " If a batter swings and misses the pitch prior to the ball hitting the ground or the plate, it is a strike. EFFECT: The ball is dead."
Rule 8, Section 6-G states, "Exception: (Men's Slow pitch)- Runners may advance after the ball reaches the front edge of home plate.
I cannot locate a compromise for stealing and a ball swung and missed by a batter. Is the ball live or dead? Can a runner still advance on a ball that is swung at, but missed?
I'd appreciate any input on the stealing rule. It is sure to be an interesting season watching teams try to use and misuse this rule.

#2 (**permalink**) Wed Mar 17, 2004, 10:23pm

Wow, is Mike on vacation?

According to ASA rules; Base stealing is legal in Adult Men's Slow Pitch (does not apply to Men's Master and Senior Play). A runner may leave the base when the ball reaches the front edge of home plate (provided the ball has not touched the ground prior to reaching the front edge of home plate).

Which means that the ball remains live after it reaches the front edge of home plate and the batter swings and misses. Consequently, the runner may steal, provided he does according to ASA rules.

FUBLUE · #3 (**permalink**) Wed Mar 17, 2004, 11:33pm

I've attended two clinics that have addressed the issue of stealing. BOth clinicians say the same thing.

1). Runners can steal once the ball reaches the front of the plate.

2). If the ball hits in front of the plate or hits the plate or hits the batter, it is a dead ball and no one can steal.

It is references in POE #48, page 159 in ASA rule book.

Personally, I love the rule. It should speed up the game!

IRISHMAFIA · #4 (**permalink**) Thu Mar 18, 2004, 08:51am

Quote:

Originally posted by VaASAump
Wow, is Mike on vacation?

According to ASA rules; Base stealing is legal in Adult Men's Slow Pitch (does not apply to Men's Master and Senior Play). A runner may leave the base when the ball reaches the front edge of home plate (provided the ball has not touched the ground prior to reaching the front edge of home plate).

Which means that the ball remains live after it reaches the front edge of home plate and the batter swings and misses. Consequently, the runner may steal, provided he does according to ASA rules.

Don't get smart, Sergio. I was there

Speaking ASA Men's SP stealing.

A runner may leave the base when the ball reaches the plate. Nothing new there. If the ball hits the ground before the front edge of the plate, hits any part of the plate or batter, the ball is dead and no runners may advance.

Otherwise, the ball is live and runners may advance at their own risk on any pitch. If the runner is not moving (or obviously not advancing) at the time the catcher returns the ball to the pitcher in the vicinity of the pitcher's plate (and the pitcher catches it), the ball is dead and ALL runners return to the last base occupied at the time of the catcher's release. If the pitcher does not catch the ball, or catches it outside the vicinity of the plate, the ball is live and runners may advance.

Please note: the key here is the time of the release by the catcher, not when the pitcher receives the ball.

If the runner was advancing when the catcher releases the ball, the pitcher can catch it and throw out any runner off a base. The catcher may attempt to pick-off a runner... a foul tip is possible, though not likely. Same ruling as FP, ball is live...a live ball pitch which rolls out of play is a dead ball and runners advanced one base...same with a blocked ball, if a runner is advancing and the ball becomes blocked or the on-deck batter interferes with the catcher's ability to get an out, the runner being played on is called out. If there was no obvious play, the runners are returned to the base last touched at the time of the blocked ball..."vicinity of the pitcher's plate" should be envisioned as similar to the 8'circle used for FP.

Val97AK · #5 (**permalink**) Thu Mar 25, 2004, 01:21am

What I see happening is a timing issue between the ball crossing the front edge of the plate-the runner taking off-and the catcher trying to make a play. If it appears to the batter that the catcher has a good position on the runner, they could swing at the ball at the last second disrupting the catcher's attempt. It would be a fine line between catcher obstruction and interference. I may be playing this out too slowly in my mind... but this is SLOW pitch

IRISHMAFIA · #6 (**permalink**) Thu Mar 25, 2004, 06:56am

Quote:

Originally posted by Val97AK
What I see happening is a timing issue between the ball crossing the front edge of the plate-the runner taking off-and the catcher trying to make a play. If it appears to the batter that the catcher has a good position on the runner, they could swing at the ball at the last second disrupting the catcher's attempt. It would be a fine line between catcher obstruction and interference. I may be playing this out too slowly in my mind... but this is SLOW pitch

Bad news, Val, there is nothing slow about slow pitch.

To begin, the time at which the runner may leave the base has not changed. Nor has the batter's right to hit the ball at any time they please, up until it hits the ground. There is no question about the scenario you offered above, this is catcher's obstruction EVERY time.

#7 (**permalink**) Thu Mar 25, 2004, 09:24am

Mike, since slow pitch does not use the 8 foot circle, how can we judge the vicinity of the pitcher to the pitching plate? Maybe a suggestion would be to use the 8 foot circle in rec leagues to help us out or???? Any ideas? I want to be a brat at our umpires meeting on Monday night. I'm sure our UIC will probably want to buy me a cold one to shut me up. Hee hee.

IRISHMAFIA · #8 (**permalink**) Thu Mar 25, 2004, 10:33am

Quote:

Originally posted by Ref Ump Welsch
Mike, since slow pitch does not use the 8 foot circle, how can we judge the vicinity of the pitcher to the pitching plate? Maybe a suggestion would be to use the 8 foot circle in rec leagues to help us out or???? Any ideas? I want to be a brat at our umpires meeting on Monday night. I'm sure our UIC will probably want to buy me a cold one to shut me up. Hee hee.

Unless you can get a ground crew to drop an 8' circle, you'll just have to use your best judgment.

In my area, we are lucky if a foul line is laid in the infield, let alone anything else being done.

Just make the call and remember an umpire's three favorite words, "in my judgment".

Val97AK · #9 (**permalink**) Thu Mar 25, 2004, 12:57pm

Thanks, Mike.
So technically, there could be an exception on
Rule 7, Section 4-C: For each legally pitched ball swung at and missed by the batter.
(Slow Pitch Effect)The ball is dead.
**Except when stealing is allowed, see Fast Pitch effect**

I know that this rule book will never be perfect, but these are the clarifications that my umpires call me on all the time. Thanks to all bringing your ideas and concerns to the Forum!!!

Valinda

#10 (**permalink**) Thu Mar 25, 2004, 04:38pm

Heck, we're lucky if the foul lines are even straight. I worked an all day tournament on a Sunday once, and looked at all 4 fields before we started. All the foul lines were crooked. Looks the field caretaker had a rough night on Saturday. Maybe a few too many shots????

IRISHMAFIA · #11 (**permalink**) Thu Mar 25, 2004, 04:47pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Val97AK
Thanks, Mike.
So technically, there could be an exception on
Rule 7, Section 4-C: For each legally pitched ball swung at and missed by the batter.
(Slow Pitch Effect)The ball is dead.
**Except when stealing is allowed, see Fast Pitch effect**

I know that this rule book will never be perfect, but these are the clarifications that my umpires call me on all the time. Thanks to all bringing your ideas and concerns to the Forum!!!

Valinda

Yes, there should be an "exception" added or this paragraph deleted and the previous one (FP ONLY) adjusted for all games with a caveat for dead ball situations.