HELP. Let's get these right

[WestMichBlue]

Class tomorrow night, and now I am not sure of some of my answers. NFHS rules.

1. R1 on 2B, fly ball to CF, R1 leaves early on catch. Throw from F8 beats R1 to 3B, but gets by F5 and rolls into dugout. R1 is on 3B when Blue calls Dead Ball.

Award is from the runner's position at time of throw which was between 2B and 3B, so award is to home. However, NFHS rules do not allow runner to return to touch a missed base or one left early if she has reached the base beyond. What governs "reached?" Is it the time of Dead Ball, or is it also the time of throw?

I say time of throw, so I would allow R1 to go back and touch 2B, award home, and deny appeal by defense. What say you?
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2. R1 on 3B, R2 on 1B, one out. Hard ground ball to F3 who steps on 1B (2nd out) and throws to F6 for tag on R2 (3rd out). R1 scores before 3rd out. Force or timing play?

R2 was put out at the base she was forced to, but the force was off before the tag; theoretically she could have gone back to 1B and been tagged out there.

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3. R1 on 3B, R2 on 1B, one out. Blooper into RF, R1 scores, R2 misses 2B on way to 3B, F9 fields ball and throws out slow running B-R at 1B. Defense appeals missed base on R2 and gets the 3rd out. Run score?

This is really the same as #2; R2 was put out on appeal at the base she was forced to; but force was off by B-R being put out at 1B.

I've got Force Play in both #2 and #3, thus no run scores. Do you agree?

WMB

[TexBlue]

1. I would allow the runner to go back to 2nd , then venture on home.

2 & 3 I beg to differ here. The 2nd out in both cases was at 1st base, thus negating a force play at 2nd. I do believe I would rule timing play and award the run in both cases, if the plate was crossed before the 3rd out.

[JEL]

1. If runner has entered dugout, no retouch possible. If no appeal, run scores. If retouch is made, gotta see re-touch of all bases. (Reached is governed by throw per 8.3.1 sit B 2003 case book)

2&3 Ditto TexBlue

[greymule]

In Play 1, the runner cannot return to touch 2B, unless things have changed since the 2002 book (5-2-2). In ASA, the runner could retouch in this situation.

Play 2 is definitely a time play.

In Play 3, Fed apparently follows ASA in that once the BR is put out, all force plays are off, including appeals for bases missed while the force was still on (i.e., before the BR was put out). So no force play, run scores.

[IRISHMAFIA]

In #2 & #3, you note the relief of the force and then immediately rule the no runs score due to the force out.

I'm totally confused.

Also, as noted on another post, the do not believe the NFHS rules allow a runner to return to touch a missed base or one left too soon if the runner in question is on or beyond the next base when the ball goes dead.

[Roger Greene]

Greymule and Mike hit the nail on the head.

I would add that my understanding of the proper mechanic in #1 would be that if the runner attempted to return you would allow her to do so. However, when the apeal was made you would honor the appeal as the retouch was not legal because the runnre was on or beyond the advance base when the ball went to DBT.

You then get to demonstrate your game management skills because the offensive coach is likely not to understand the rule.

Roger Greene

[CecilOne]

That makes three, inning over.
But just for clarity, reached means before the ball went dead, which is when it contacts DBT, not when it is called and nothing to do with the time of throw. Therefore, #1 depends on which came first, runner touching 3rd or ball into DBT.

Questions are supposed to be based on confusion.

[WestMichBlue]

Thanks everybody. My head was fuzzy late last night when I put my PowerPoint together. But, with your help, and some quick research into the casebook this morning, I am ready to go.

WMB