Ruling

[WinterWillie]

B1 is at the plate with 0-2 count. The next pitch is fouled at the plate. The plate umpire signals foul pitch and turns to clean plate. The next pitch is called strike three on B1. The official scorer says the count on the batter (B2) is 0-1 because B1 stayed at first from the previous pitch when the foul call was not heard. What is the ruling?

[Dakota]

Originally posted by WinterWillie
B1 is at the plate with 0-2 count. The next pitch is fouled at the plate. The plate umpire signals foul pitch and turns to clean plate. The next pitch is called strike three on B1. The official scorer says the count on the batter (B2) is 0-1 because B1 stayed at first from the previous pitch when the foul call was not heard. What is the ruling?

I'm confused... Let me guess & restate the situation. Tell me if I've got it right.

B1 at bat with a 0-2 count.
B1 hits a foul ball, but thinking it was fair, advances to first.
PU signals FOUL BALL, but either doesn't verbalize it or is not very loud, and turns to clean the plate.
B2 comes to the plate thinking it was a fair ball, too.
PU doesn't notice B2 is at the plate, and signals for the pitch.
Called strike. PU signals / calls STRIKE THREE, thinking B1 is still at the plate.

Now what?

-----

Do I have it right? If not, please restate.

[chuck chopper]

If Dakota has this interpretation correct then I say the ump's have messed this up so bad, the last pitch does not count, and they need to fix things back to the point of the foul ball.
Originally I could not imagine how this could possibly happen ?

[Dakota]

Or, how about this... (assuming ASA)

Sharp scorekeeper for the defense appeals BOO. Out on B2 stands (came to the plate out of order, assumed the count of the incomplete at bat of B1, and struck out). B1 called out on the BOO appeal. 2 outs; B3 due up.

[chuck chopper]

We are really twisting this all up, but on the BOO appeal B1 would be out, and now wouldn't B2 come to bat with a "fresh count" not one stike, & certainly not the victim of a strike out on one pitch.

[WinterWillie]

Originally posted by Dakota

I'm confused... Let me guess & restate the situation. Tell me if I've got it right.

B1 at bat with a 0-2 count.
B1 hits a foul ball, but thinking it was fair, advances to first.
PU signals FOUL BALL, but either doesn't verbalize it or is not very loud, and turns to clean the plate.
B2 comes to the plate thinking it was a fair ball, too.
PU doesn't notice B2 is at the plate, and signals for the pitch.
Called strike. PU signals / calls STRIKE THREE, thinking B1 is still at the plate.

Now what?

-----

Do I have it right? If not, please restate.

Yes, that is the correct scenario. The rules applying here are NFHS. The (ASA) state interpreter's ruling as regards to NFHS, was that by allowing the next pitch, everything that happened was locked in and that you have B1 at first, with B2
at 0-1 at the plate.

[IRISHMAFIA]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by WinterWillie

Originally posted by Dakota

Yes, that is the correct scenario. The rules applying here are NFHS. The (ASA) state interpreter's ruling as regards to NFHS, was that by allowing the next pitch, everything that happened was locked in and that you have B1 at first, with B2
at 0-1 at the plate.

Speaking ASA

That may happen in Fed, but I cannot see it happening in ASA. I certainly am not going to put myself in a position of explaining to anyone how a BR reached 1B safely on a foul ball.

Obviously, an umpire crew should catch this, so this scenario should never occur.

I tend to agree with the BOO call. After all, for as much as you know, the offense did this intentionally while trying to pull a fast one on the umpire and opponent. This should be especially true if the umpire does their job and gives the count prior to restarting play, the the batter doesn't question it.

There are rules which can be used to render different resolutions. How do you announce "play" after a foul ball if the batter is not in the box? Nothing can happen, right?

OTOH, if the batter is not in the box within 10 seconds, the ball is dead and the umpire calls a strike.

There are probably a few others.

[Dakota]

I know the sitch was indicated as NFHS, but since I posted a BOO ruling based on ASA, this response is ASA (I'll get to NFHS later...)

Originally posted by chuck chopper
... on the BOO appeal B1 would be out,

Correct.

Originally posted by chuck chopper
and now wouldn't B2 come to bat with a "fresh count" not one stike, & certainly not the victim of a strike out on one pitch.

No, because if you are considering B2 as coming to bat with a fresh count, then it is not BOO. The BOO comes in when B2 comes to bat to finish the incomplete at-bat of B1, hence BOO (batting in B1's spot). With ASA, the outs made on the play stand, including an out by the out-of-order batter. Hence, B1 is out on the appeal. B2 is out through ordinary play (struck out). B3 is due up since B2 is skipped in the order, having made an out. (7-2B EFFECT 2c EXCEPTION {whew!})

[Dakota]

Originally posted by WinterWillie
The rules applying here are NFHS. The (ASA) state interpreter's ruling as regards to NFHS, was that by allowing the next pitch, everything that happened was locked in and that you have B1 at first, with B2
at 0-1 at the plate.

I can't see that happening in NFHS, either.

The umpire called the batted ball FOUL. Whether anyone heard/saw or not is irrelevant. The ball was dead. B1 has no legal status on 1st base, whether a new pitch was thrown or not.

There is no "do over" in softball, NFHS or ASA. The umpire screwed up in not noticing the new batter, and probably screwed up his mechanics in not being demonstrative enough with the FOUL call, but nonetheless, he has not changed his call. B2 entered the box in the place of B1 during an at bat. This is BOO, and count is now 0-3, batter out.

A difference with NFHS v ASA is the out on B2 does not affect who is due up; B2 is due up.

Now, what about if the defense is not smart enough to appeal BOO?

Umpire orders B1 off the base (no legal status there). Umpire declares B2 out (strike three - assumed the count of B1). Umpire calls B3 to bat. Game continues (probably after a long discussion with the offensive coach).

Same effect, except B1 is not out. Presumably sometime before the first pitch to B3 a light bulb will go off in the defensive dugout and an appeal will be made for BOO.