Calling the illegal pitch

[Dakota]

Just to give our resident UICs my view to support / correct...

Originally posted by WestMichBlue
(#1) ASA pitcher steps on plate with pivot foot, hands are separated, stride foot is just behind plate. Is she illegal right now?

No.

Then she slides her stride foot forward to touch the plate. Is she now legal?

There is nothing in the rules about how speedily she brings both feet into contact with the plate. She ain't required to hop on with both feet at the same time.

Instead of sliding the stride foot forward, suppose she stepped back with her pivot foot. Has she committed an illegal pitch?

Interesting question. If this is illegal, it is an illegal back off of the plate after taking the pitching position. However, since she never actually took the pitching position (both feet were not on the plate), then I'd say, no, not illegal - just starting over.

(#2) NFHS pitcher steps on plate with pivot foot, hands are separated, stride foot back and outside the 24" plate width. Is she illegal right now?

No... she can enter the pitching position from the side if she wants.

Then she slides her stride foot sidways and is only partially outside the 24" width. Is she now legal. Instead of sliding the stride foot sideways, suppose she stepped back with her pivot foot. Has she committed an illegal pitch?

She was never illegal, based on my logic above.

Real nitpickin. (#3) ASA pitcher with both feet in contact with plate, hands apart, takes signal, brings hands together and steps back with stride foot. Is she illegal right now? As your arm goes out, she steps back with pivot foot and seperates hands, thus legally removing herself from the pitching position. Illegal pitch?
Ooops, Dakota already posted this one. But it fits in my sequence so I'll repeat it here.

You already have my view on this one. She's legal.

Now a real winger. (#4) ASA pitcher with both feet in contact with plate, hands apart, takes signal, brings hands together and raises them together over head, shifts weight back and picks up pivot foot and sets it down in front of the plate. Is she illegal (crow hop) right now?

Illegal pitch. There's nothing she can do to undo the illegal step with the pivot foot. The rest of this scenario does not restore legality. But, it is not a crow hop (no push off). Instead it is a violation of ASA Rule 6F-8,

The pitcher may move back from the pitching position by stepping backwards off the pitcher's plate prior to separating his hands. Stepping forward or sideways at any time constitutes an illegal pitch

[bluejay]

Dakota, I have time to answer yours but not enough for all of WMB's questions. I will get to that later. If she puts foreign substance on the ball nothing she can do (such as stepping back) can make that legal. A pitch does not have to be delivered for that to be illigal. At that point she has committed an illigal act and it should be called. You should not give her time to get on the rubber and step back.

Jay Garner

[Dakota]

Originally posted by bluejay
Dakota, I have time to answer yours but not enough for all of WMB's questions. I will get to that later. If she puts foreign substance on the ball nothing she can do (such as stepping back) can make that legal. A pitch does not have to be delivered for that to be illigal. At that point she has committed an illigal act and it should be called. You should not give her time to get on the rubber and step back.

Jay Garner

That's exactly what I said, Jay. To wit...

Originally posted by Dakota
Fine, Jay, except all of your examples are stand-alone illegal acts; that is to say, there is nothing the pitcher can do from that point forward to legalize what she has done. She has crossed a point of no return.

My point was that few (only one, IMO) of WMB's scenarios fit this category that there is nothing the pitcher can do from that point to make herself legal. All of the others, you need to wait until she crosses the point of no return (ASA - separating the hands) to make the call.

[Del-Blue]

Tom,

I think you are correct. As long as she can correct the illegal act, she has every right to. Those acts that are illegal, such as going to the mouth and not wiping, adding a foriegn substance etc.etc.etc.. cannot be corrected, so you have an illegal pitch right than. Other wise, you have to wait until the pitch starts.

[TexBlue]

Now a real winger. (#4) ASA pitcher with both feet in contact with plate, hands apart, takes signal, brings hands together and raises them together over head, shifts weight back and picks up pivot foot and sets it down in front of the plate. Is she illegal (crow hop) right now? Then stops her motion, steps back with stride foot and follows with pivot foot and separates hands, thus removing herself from pitching position. Did she committ an illegal pitch?

I think the 1st three are covered, but #4 is interesting. ASA Rule 6-3-G, last sentence, states " Raising the (pivot) foot off the pitching plate and returning it to the plate creates a rocking motion and is an illegal act." I'm gonna call it until someone convinces me that isn't the intent of the rule.


[Edited by TexBlue on Jan 23rd, 2004 at 04:18 PM]

[Dakota]

Rick,

I think you and I read the description slightly differently.

WMB said she put the pivot foot back down in front of the plate. I took that to mean off the plate in the dirt. I think you took it to mean at the front of the plate, but still on the plate. In that case, I agree with your ruling.

If it was in the dirt, though, I don't think your rule applies - but the one I quoted that she cannot take a step forward does.

Either way, it is an illegal pitch right then and there.