Would you count the run?

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by mach3

Mike, I can somehow see where you Merle and Henry are coming from, but I don't see a reason for a runner to continue to 1B if the 3rd out is already made. So I guess I would just not read the rules that way.
And I don't see, why it would be the same as a Runner going back after he left too soon, since that is an appeal, but in the other case the "infraction" of the BR - not touching fist base (if it is an appeal) - happens after the third out has been made.

Raoul [/B]

Raoul,

Maybe I used a bad analogy in trying to relate it to something else.

What the interpretation does is basically allow the defense the option of which out it wants to apply to the scenario which would always be a force out or a put out at 1B on the BR as that would always nullify any runs scoring on such a play.

I guess it should be noted that this only applies to the 3rd and any subsequent outs of an inning. A team cannot make the 2nd out with a force and the 3rd on a time play and select to use the force as the 3rd out of the inning.

Thanks,

[mcrowder]

My reply was definitely in response to Dakota's variation. In the original case play, there's no question there's a run scored.

I posed the scenario to a couple of other umpires, and all came to the same conclusion, but one mentioned something interesting. The out at 1st could actually be a "Fifth" out (ruling is still the same, but interesting nonetheless) if the 3rd out was Charlie passing Baker, the 4th was 3B tagging Baker, and then the 5th out being the BR at 1st.

[Dutch Alex]

I was wondering, since one of us will be the base-umpire and will make the call's. Ain't it easy to call the thirt OUT for the passing runner, then having three outs leavinbg the diamond for the next inn.?
So the players can do whatever they like you called the thirt out and dicided that the inning was over and done. Run counts!
As ASA-rules says, and our German-friend wrote, only to avoid a run a fouth out could be made by appeal! Thus not by getting out the hitter/base-runner...

love Alex

[greymule]

So the players can do whatever they like you called the thirt out and dicided that the inning was over and done.

Sorry, Dutch Alex. It doesn't work that way. Until the defense leaves the field, they can try to get extra (advantageous) outs.

Hey, when the defense gets a fourth out in an inning, are four putouts credited in one inning?

[Dakota]

Memo to coaches: Teach your batter-runners to always, always, always continue the play until you touch 1st base... always, no matter what.

OK... how about these 2:

Bases loaded, same as the original scenario. R1 - R3.

A) Once R3 passes R2, and BU calls the OUT loudly, BR stops and turns toward dugout to get her glove. F5 throws to 1st. F3 catches throw and steps on 1st.

B) Once R3 passes R2, and BU calls the OUT loudly, BR stops and turns toward dugout. F5 tosses ball into pitcher's circle. BR enters dugout before the infielders have all vacated the field.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by Dakota


Bases loaded, same as the original scenario. R1 - R3.

A) Once R3 passes R2, and BU calls the OUT loudly, BR stops and turns toward dugout to get her glove. F5 throws to 1st. F3 catches throw and steps on 1st.

B) Once R3 passes R2, and BU calls the OUT loudly, BR stops and turns toward dugout. F5 tosses ball into pitcher's circle. BR enters dugout before the infielders have all vacated the field.

A No run, continual play.

B Score the run. The defense failed to make a play on BR.

[mach3]

Mike,

I try to understand the interpretation:
You write continual play. Does that mean, the fielder has to be in the act of making the play to 1B? Or can she also stop the action and then make the play?
E.g.: Umpire calls 3rd Out. BR Stops. F6 stops any futher action, starts towards her dugout, but than notices that the BR never touched 1B. Now she throws to 1B. Same thing, or different thing? If different how much time would be allowed between both actions?

Thanks

Raoul

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by mach3
Mike,

I try to understand the interpretation:
You write continual play. Does that mean, the fielder has to be in the act of making the play to 1B? Or can she also stop the action and then make the play?
E.g.: Umpire calls 3rd Out. BR Stops. F6 stops any futher action, starts towards her dugout, but than notices that the BR never touched 1B. Now she throws to 1B. Same thing, or different thing? If different how much time would be allowed between both actions?

Thanks

Raoul

I said continual play as it is all part of a single play being made by the defense. For example, if a defender reaches out and believes they touched the runner, why should they not continue with further play hoping the umpire saw what they did? The defender shouldn't have wait for an umpire's call to know whether to continue on with a play or not. Nor should the offense be able to violate a rule which would circumvent the defense's ability to get an out which would nullify a run.

You know what, this smells like a rule change proposal(ASA). I will submit a change which will add the same caveat to "passing/aiding a runner" that now exist for removing of a helmet during a live ball.