hesitation rule -

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by jmkupka

Not that rare for me unfortunately... I have to enforce 8.7.T (i believe that's what it is in USA) at least twice a season... usually a perfectly laid-down bunt that they just toss to the pitcher without making a play on BR... BR blasts through 1B, trots back and decides to break for 2B...

So in this scenario, does it matter what happens first? In other words:

A. BR overruns first base. Ball goes to the pitcher in the circle before the BR makes her turn and heads back to first base.

B. BR overruns first base. Ball goes to the pitcher in the circle after the BR makes her turn and heads back to first base.

I'm sure that for "A", the BR would be out if she's heading towards first and then makes a break for second. But if the BR is already heading towards first and then the ball goes into the circle, doesn't the BR still have her one stop to make and then continue to first or head to second?

I must admit, I made this call during a HS playoff game last month. BR overran first as she easily beat out a bunt, turned right to come back, and then I saw the first base coach look over at the third base coach for a signal. The ball was in the circle, so I continued to watch what was going to happen. First base coach said something to the BR, and the BR continued to the bag, stopped short of it, then took off for second. I called Dead Ball and rang her up.

Third base coach came over to me and asked why I made that call, and I told her once the ball is in the circle and the BR is heading back toward first base, she's committed there and cannot take off for second. She replied that as long as the BR doesn't go all the way back to and touch first base, she can take off for second. I told her that was the college rule, but not the high school rule. She said her team had been executing that play all regular season, and I was the first to make the call. I told her to read the LBR in the book about the BR's responsibilities when she overruns first base. She said she would and get back to me. She never did.

But as I thought about it later on, I wondered if I should've noted the timing between when the ball entered the circle and when the BR made her turn at first to come back. I didn't notice it during the game, and I think it makes a difference.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by Manny A

So in this scenario, does it matter what happens first? In other words:

A. BR overruns first base. Ball goes to the pitcher in the circle before the BR makes her turn and heads back to first base.

B. BR overruns first base. Ball goes to the pitcher in the circle after the BR makes her turn and heads back to first base.

I'm sure that for "A", the BR would be out if she's heading towards first and then makes a break for second. But if the BR is already heading towards first and then the ball goes into the circle, doesn't the BR still have her one stop to make and then continue to first or head to second?



But as I thought about it later on, I wondered if I should've noted the timing between when the ball entered the circle and when the BR made her turn at first to come back. I didn't notice it during the game, and I think it makes a difference.

The book says the runner's responsibilities are "while the pitcher has control ..."

[jmkupka]

Manny, I've raised this exact question in the past on this here forum. The consensus, as I remember it, is when the BR reaches the end of her overrun and turns around, that constitutes the "one stop" entitled to her in the LBR.

Although it's not spelled out in the book, seems to me if she's already headed back to the base, and THEN the ball arrives in the circle, she has not used her one stop yet...

It's almost like if a runner is heading back to 3B, then the ball gets to the circle, is she not permitted to stop and head non-stop for home?

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by jmkupka

The consensus, as I remember it, is when the BR reaches the end of her overrun and turns around, that constitutes the "one stop" entitled to her in the LBR.

I hope that is incorrect; unless you mean the runner stops at the turnaround.

[teebob21]

Originally Posted by jmkupka

Although it's not spelled out in the book, seems to me if she's already headed back to the base, and THEN the ball arrives in the circle, she has not used her one stop yet...

It's almost like if a runner is heading back to 3B, then the ball gets to the circle, is she not permitted to stop and head non-stop for home?

This is a good point. In NCAA, it's explicitly spelled out that the return to 1B is live until she gets there. Fed/USA are clear in that this is not permitted. But wait: If a BR is moving to 1B from an overrun to RF when the ball reaches the circle, should she not be permitted her one stop and "decide"? LBR (and its associated one stop) is not in effect until the ball is in the circle in the possession and control of F1 (definitions of possession/control may vary between codes). This is an....interesting point. Rule dictates that even if she is on the move when the ball returns to F1 in the circle that the BR cannot advance to 2B after establishing a path back to 1B.

Originally Posted by CecilOne

I hope that is incorrect; unless you mean the runner stops at the turnaround.

If the ball is in the circle in possession of F1, then yes, the turnaround is a stop since most runners do an about-face when turning around. Of course, continuing to move forward while turning is not a stop. At that point, we get to make the big bucks and determine where and which base the BR was moving towards.

[Andy]

The interpretation I've heard is that a change of direction is considered a "stop".

Because if you're going one way, you have to "stop" going that way to go a different way.

[teebob21]

Originally Posted by Andy

The interpretation I've heard is that a change of direction is considered a "stop".

Because if you're going one way, you have to "stop" going that way to go a different way.

Andy, I'll take this to it's logical extreme....what about a "loop"? A runner could turn all the way around back to 1B by running in a short circle without stopping, then proceed in the direction of 2B by curling the other way, again without stopping.

In this TWP situation, I'm going to judge an attempt to advance towards a particular base (and commitment to that base) when the runner is headed in that direction, but by rule if I run figure-eights all the way to 2B, have I ever stopped??