These last 2 entries pertain to thrown balls that ended up in DBT. They aren't exactly what this thread was discussing.

They are related and there are differences in how an umpire should decide when to call time out.

They most certainly ARE related. They have to do with an umpire calling time before runners have completed their running responsibilities. Most umpires believe they should call time AS SOON AS the ball goes out of play, whereas they have more leeway in other situations. These plays show definitively that the umpire should give runners time even when the ball has gone out of play. If umpires should give runners time even when the ball has gone out of play, they should most definitely give runners time when it has not.

Yeah, that's what I said.

Another clarification from May 2013:

NOTE: "Once the ball is declared 'dead'... the (runner) has to go back to the base they left too soon."

The runner can return after the ball has been declared dead. That should clarify.

Sorry. No beer for you.

ONLY if the ball has gone out of play.

That was not the crux of this string. It was an umpire probably calling time too soon. Although in slow pitch, once all action has ceased, the umpire is supposed to call "time".

No. The text says "once the ball has been declared dead," not "once the ball goes out of play". It is addressing the umpire's action, not the status of the ball.

This is not worded properly. By definition, the ball is dead the moment it leaves play, not when the umpire makes such a declaration.

From one of my earlier posts:

As I said, the issue is when the umpire declares the ball dead, not when the ball goes out of play.

Point is the umpire does not determine when the ball becomes dead, the rule does. Waiting for an umpire to open his mouth does not delay the status of the ball. As previously noted, it is poorly worded

Again, the purpose is for the umpire to delay his declaration so that the runners can complete their base running responsibilities. When the ball became dead does not matter.

And in the situation presented by OP the ball never went out of play. When the umpire opened his mouth was all that mattered.

The runners can complete their responsibilities, like a base untouched or not tagged, as soon as the ball is dead; or for that matter while it is still live.

Why are you fighting this? :confused: The rules clarification was written to help umpires understand when to declare the ball dead and make subsequent calls so that we do not get into situations like the OP's.

Not fighting, my first post on this except teasing Irish.

Just expanding/clarifying. As you said "umpire to delay his declaration so that the runners can "; which means completing running while the ball is dead and waiting for the umpire to announce.

:rolleyes::D

Probably because he knows better :)

I'll stand on, and have since 1989, 8.5.G.Exception.2 all day long.