The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Softball

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jun 18, 2018, 02:27pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: The Land Of The Free and The Home Of The Brave (MD/DE)
Posts: 6,363
Help Needed

Some items observed.

1) An umpire insisted a “catch and carry” award is a base beyond where they reached, as if a delayed dead ball. That required a very persistent debate to do it correctly.

2) An umpire claimed that on an overthrow going out of play; the 2 base award was from the time of the pitch. Continued arguing until the UIC had to settle it. That umpire then changed his call as to where the runner was; not quite 2nd instead of on 2nd.

3) An umpire did not know how to handle the lineup update for a DP going into play as a fielder.
It had to be explained first that another player had to go to the bench; and second not become the DP, just an offense only player.
He also did not think there could be a substitute for the OO and confused the OO player with the FLEX.

All three of these issues delayed games several minutes.
__________________
Officiating takes more than OJT.
It's not our jobs to invent rulings to fit our personal idea of what should and should not be.
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jun 18, 2018, 07:14pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: SE Ohio
Posts: 987
What level and code?
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jun 18, 2018, 08:15pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: The Land Of The Free and The Home Of The Brave (MD/DE)
Posts: 6,363
Quote:
Originally Posted by SNIPERBBB View Post
What level and code?
USA 16&U; but the point is the umpires.
__________________
Officiating takes more than OJT.
It's not our jobs to invent rulings to fit our personal idea of what should and should not be.
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jun 18, 2018, 09:03pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: USA
Posts: 14,551
Quote:
Originally Posted by CecilOne View Post
Some items observed.

1) An umpire insisted a “catch and carry” award is a base beyond where they reached, as if a delayed dead ball. That required a very persistent debate to do it correctly.

2) An umpire claimed that on an overthrow going out of play; the 2 base award was from the time of the pitch. Continued arguing until the UIC had to settle it. That umpire then changed his call as to where the runner was; not quite 2nd instead of on 2nd.
There are two of the easiest rules around. There really is no valid excuse for not getting these correct.
__________________
The bat issue in softball is as much about liability, insurance and litigation as it is about competition, inflated egos and softball.
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jun 19, 2018, 08:13am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Derry, NH
Posts: 1,195
"Those" umpires are everywhere.

I've even run into them at Nationals.

No matter how much USA makes training and clinics available, "those" umpires simply don't care enough to attend. They don't read the new rules that come out each year, they don't attend local meetings, they don't take the umpire exam.

They are "warm bodies" that every local, district, region needs to cover games. It's nice when there is a choice to not to have to use "those" umpires, but sometimes it's unavoidable. And the continued existence of cliques in various circles ensures that "those" umpires continue to get games they otherwise shouldn't have been assigned.

Our local group continues to see our average age creep up without seeing any new influx of officials. Five or ten years from now USA Softball will likely be in a real quandary.
__________________
Ted
USA & NFHS Softball
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jun 19, 2018, 11:24am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tru_in_Blu View Post
"Those" umpires are everywhere.

I've even run into them at Nationals.

No matter how much USA makes training and clinics available, "those" umpires simply don't care enough to attend. They don't read the new rules that come out each year, they don't attend local meetings, they don't take the umpire exam.

They are "warm bodies" that every local, district, region needs to cover games. It's nice when there is a choice to not to have to use "those" umpires, but sometimes it's unavoidable. And the continued existence of cliques in various circles ensures that "those" umpires continue to get games they otherwise shouldn't have been assigned.

Our local group continues to see our average age creep up without seeing any new influx of officials. Five or ten years from now USA Softball will likely be in a real quandary.
I’ve heard from several sports that good officials are getting harder to find. (The old body can only go for so long) Until we can get the spectators and irate coaches scarring the crap out of young ones, they will all be hurting for officials. May see the cost per game go to $50 per game shortly for rec ball.
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jun 20, 2018, 10:39am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: The Land Of The Free and The Home Of The Brave (MD/DE)
Posts: 6,363
Quote:
Originally Posted by CecilOne View Post
Some items observed.

1) An umpire insisted a “catch and carry” award is a base beyond where they reached, as if a delayed dead ball. That required a very persistent debate to do it correctly.

2) An umpire claimed that on an overthrow going out of play; the 2 base award was from the time of the pitch. Continued arguing until the UIC had to settle it. That umpire then changed his call as to where the runner was; not quite 2nd instead of on 2nd.

All three of these issues delayed games several minutes.
If #1 and #2 were the same umpire and your "partner", would you decline further games with him?
__________________
Officiating takes more than OJT.
It's not our jobs to invent rulings to fit our personal idea of what should and should not be.
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jun 20, 2018, 12:38pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Derry, NH
Posts: 1,195
Quote:
Originally Posted by CecilOne View Post
If #1 and #2 were the same umpire and your "partner", would you decline further games with him?
This would largely depend upon the relationship I had with that person. Also, how often might I have to work with that umpire.

In a small group, hopefully it would be something that could be corrected and would be received by that person as a learning moment and a chance to improve their game.

Then there are some that are simply unconscious. They don't know the rules well enough, so they make some up as they go along. If these types aren't willing to receive constructive criticism, then, yeah, I'd ask to not be assigned with them. It's not just their lack of knowledge and game management skills going south, but a partner can be caught up in that backwash and be guilty by simple association.

The other side of that coin is to not let that umpire work with less experienced officials such that bad habits and myths are passed on to unsuspecting officials. Sometimes, it might be better for you to work with this umpire just to keep him/her in line.
__________________
Ted
USA & NFHS Softball
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old Fri Jun 22, 2018, 01:23pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: The Land Of The Free and The Home Of The Brave (MD/DE)
Posts: 6,363
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tru_in_Blu View Post
This would largely depend upon the relationship I had with that person. Also, how often might I have to work with that umpire.

In a small group, hopefully it would be something that could be corrected and would be received by that person as a learning moment and a chance to improve their game.

Then there are some that are simply unconscious. They don't know the rules well enough, so they make some up as they go along. If these types aren't willing to receive constructive criticism, then, yeah, I'd ask to not be assigned with them. It's not just their lack of knowledge and game management skills going south, but a partner can be caught up in that backwash and be guilty by simple association.

The other side of that coin is to not let that umpire work with less experienced officials such that bad habits and myths are passed on to unsuspecting officials. Sometimes, it might be better for you to work with this umpire just to keep him/her in line.
No prior work with that ump, future 2 - 3 tournaments a year max.
Different group.

Strongly doubt willingness to accept correction or better attitude.

I get your point about "work with this umpire just to keep him/her in line"; but too much in-game struggle.
__________________
Officiating takes more than OJT.
It's not our jobs to invent rulings to fit our personal idea of what should and should not be.
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old Sat Jun 23, 2018, 12:31pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Sherman, TX
Posts: 4,360
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigdogtx View Post
I’ve heard from several sports that good officials are getting harder to find. (The old body can only go for so long) Until we can get the spectators and irate coaches scarring the crap out of young ones, they will all be hurting for officials. May see the cost per game go to $50 per game shortly for rec ball.
On average, only 20 percent of officials return for their third year of officiating.
__________________
Scott


It's a small world, but I wouldn't want to have to paint it.
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old Sat Jun 23, 2018, 06:24pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: USA
Posts: 14,551
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigdogtx View Post
May see the cost per game go to $50 per game shortly for rec ball.
That's (costs) one of the reasons teams are disappearing. Umpires get more money for less games in some areas
__________________
The bat issue in softball is as much about liability, insurance and litigation as it is about competition, inflated egos and softball.
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jun 25, 2018, 09:57am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Indiana
Posts: 73
In our area they play a 65 or 70 minute time limit every weekend. And for some strange reason the teams love it!! I have seen 1OU games that are only 2 innings long!! this is a way for TD to make money and not have to be at the park late on Saturday night.
The teams line up to play in these tournaments. They are mostly C level with a few dads who think they are a B team. LOL.
If they ever had to go to a real USA tournament, they wouldn’t have any idea what was going to happen to them.
And the umpires that work these short games are being paid $38/40 per game and bitch that the games last too long. The game in our area is in very poor shape because of these TD’s taking advantage of the teams. High School level in the area has dropped to an all time low, and continues to get worse every year.
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jun 25, 2018, 09:59am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Indiana
Posts: 73
So has the HS umpiring. Some of them are embarrassing. They work the tournaments all summer and bring their lazy habits to the HS game.
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jun 25, 2018, 02:15pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: The Land Of The Free and The Home Of The Brave (MD/DE)
Posts: 6,363
Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
So has the HS umpiring. Some of them are embarrassing. They work the tournaments all summer and bring their lazy habits to the HS game.
What does lazy habits have to do with tournaments?
__________________
Officiating takes more than OJT.
It's not our jobs to invent rulings to fit our personal idea of what should and should not be.
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jun 28, 2018, 08:02pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Indiana
Posts: 73
They work back to back games all day. Some times 8 or 9 games. I don’t care who you are, or how young or old you are. After 3 or so in a row, you are not a good umpire after that. You are just going through the motions, taking short cuts and developing bad habits. I have seen it happen many times.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Help Needed Neilfish Softball 9 Mon Jul 22, 2013 12:33pm
Help Needed (Again) Rufus Baseball 25 Tue Jun 23, 2009 09:17am
Help Needed planoblue Baseball 7 Sat Apr 13, 2002 07:56am
Your help needed Dan_ref Basketball 8 Wed Sep 12, 2001 09:03pm
Help Needed JD Taylor Basketball 1 Fri Apr 07, 2000 03:18pm


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:18pm.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1