NFHS Rules Interpretation for 8-7-4

[Insane Blue]

Has NFHS given an Interpretation for 8-7-4 Look Back Rule for BR over running 1st base on a base hit.

Specifically if the BR is already walking back to 1st base before the Pitcher receives the ball in the circle and just after the Pitcher is handed the ball the runner breaks for 2nd.

I have always been under believe that the Pitcher has to have the ball in the circle before the the batter reaches 1st for 8-7-4 to be inafect.

I am only looking for NFHS Interpretation.

Thanks in advance

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by Insane Blue

Has NFHS given an Interpretation for 8-7-4 Look Back Rule for BR over running 1st base on a base hit.

Specifically if the BR is already walking back to 1st base before the Pitcher receives the ball in the circle and just after the Pitcher is handed the ball the runner breaks for 2nd.

I have always been under believe that the Pitcher has to have the ball in the circle before the the batter reaches 1st for 8-7-4 to be inafect.

I am only looking for NFHS Interpretation.

Thanks in advance

No, the pitcher does not need to have the ball before the BR reaches 1st; just that both conditions occur.

If I read this correctly, the pitcher is handed the ball in the circle; therefore has it before the runner breaks for 2nd.
Also, apparently the runner has not retouched 1st.

[Tru_in_Blu]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

I believe the overrun clauses are in effect even w/o the LBR being in effect.

So as F3 is walking the ball to F1, and the runner bluffs towards second base or takes several running steps before changing his/her mind, you have an out under which rule?

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

I believe the overrun clauses are in effect even w/o the LBR being in effect.

I don't believe that's true. For example, if the BR overruns first base and turns right to head back to first while the ball is still outside the circle, I don't believe she's committed to first base and cannot break for second after the ball is returned to the pitcher in the circle. Once the pitcher has the ball in the circle, then the BR's actions are covered under 8-7-2, not 8-7-4, and she can opt to take off for second.

Now, if the ball is in the circle, the BR then overruns first, and turns right, she's committed to first base under 8-7-4e. But overrunning and turning right while the ball is somewhere else doesn't meet this restriction.

[jmkupka]

When the BR runs through the bag, turns left and starts returning toward 1B, that turn is considered the "one stop" that all runners are given with regard to the LBR. So the order of events is critical:

Case 1:
BR runs past 1B.
Ball is returned to F1 in the circle.
BR turns left and heads back to 1B, then breaks for 2B (or does ANYTHING except return directly to 1B).
LBR violation.
(Except NCAA, where she may break for 2B at any time up until she reaches 1B.)

Case 2:
Runner overruns, turns and is headed back toward 1B.
Pitcher gets ball in circle.
Runner breaks for 2B.
In this case, the runner has not yet used her "one stop" that she's entitled to after the ball's in the circle.

All of the above is what I find to be the consensus from MANY discussions on this forum.

[chapmaja]

Originally Posted by Insane Blue

Has NFHS given an Interpretation for 8-7-4 Look Back Rule for BR over running 1st base on a base hit.

Specifically if the BR is already walking back to 1st base before the Pitcher receives the ball in the circle and just after the Pitcher is handed the ball the runner breaks for 2nd.

I have always been under believe that the Pitcher has to have the ball in the circle before the the batter reaches 1st for 8-7-4 to be inafect.

I am only looking for NFHS Interpretation.

Thanks in advance

If I understand the question correctly, you are saying that the pitcher does not have the ball in the circle when the runner breaks for 2nd, correct. If that is the case, then I have absolutely nothing except a possible play at 2nd.

[DaveASA/FED]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

I believe the overrun clauses are in effect even w/o the LBR being in effect.

I think I would have to disagree with you. 8-7-1 states that for the LBR to be in effect that the ball is live, the batter-runner has touched first base or has been declared out, and the pitcher has possession of the ball within the pitcher's circle.

The restrictions of the batter-runner rounding 1B in 8-7-4 are all a part of the LBR, and it even specifically states "Responsibilities of the batter-runner after completing a turn at bat, and while the pitcher has the ball within the 16-foot pitching circle, including a base on balls or a dropped third strike are as follows:"

So if F1 does not have the ball within the circle when the batter-runner rounds 1B the LBR is not in effect so none of 8-7-4 applies to them at that point.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

I believe the overrun clauses are in effect even w/o the LBR being in effect.

I was wrong when I posted that; now know it correctly.