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CecilOne Sun Mar 25, 2018 12:10pm

JO pool play EP
 
From the March “clarificatons” about JO pool play:
An EP can be a pinch runner for anyone.
However our Re-entry Rule would still be in effect.
The EP would be considered a substitute for the person they are running so the person who they run for and the EP running will have one more reentry.
The EP is now tied to that person and can only pinch run for that person.
Once they have used up their re-entry they still may bat and play defense but can no longer be a pinch runner.
.................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. ...


Presumably, the EP does not use a re-entry when afterward batting in her original EP spot, as she never left the game.
That means she can run for that other twice.

Example, Annabelle an EP, runs for Beatrice. Later, Beatrice is replaced by Clarissa.
1) Does “can only pinch run for that person” mean Annabelle cannot run for Clarissa. It would seem so, because it says “person”.

What happens if the "anyone" spot comes up again and the "anyone" player has already used re-entry?
2) Continuing, Beatrice re-enters and bats again.
If Annabelle runs for Beatrice again, does that mean Clarissa must replace her next time that batting spot comes up?

3) What about if no Clarissa or other subs, is Annabelle trying to run for Beatrice again an illegal re-entry for Annabelle? It seems so.

OK, 2 & 3 might be TWP, but is anything with a new rule after last year's version?

CecilOne Sat Mar 31, 2018 12:02pm

Do you know how hard it is to create a post with multiple questions which gets no response?

I guess there have been others, but ...

Happy Easter anyway !! :)

IRISHMAFIA Sat Mar 31, 2018 06:34pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by CecilOne (Post 1019730)
From the March “clarificatons” about JO pool play:
An EP can be a pinch runner for anyone.
However our Re-entry Rule would still be in effect.
The EP would be considered a substitute for the person they are running so the person who they run for and the EP running will have one more reentry.



Well, no it isn't one more, it is just a re-entry

Quote:


The EP is now tied to that person and can only pinch run for that person.
Once they have used up their re-entry they still may bat and play defense but can no longer be a pinch runner.
.................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. ...

Never cared for this rule in general.

CecilOne Fri May 04, 2018 06:31am

From the Clarifications:
"An EP can be a pinch runner for anyone. However our Re-entry Rule would still be in effect. The EP would be considered a substitute for the person they are running so the person who they run for and the EP running will have one more reentry. The EP is now tied to that person and can only pinch run for that person. Once they have used up their re-entry they still may bat and play defense but can no longer be a pinch runner. . "

Example, Annabelle an EP, runs for Beatrice. Later, Beatrice is replaced by Clarissa.

I understand the "person" bolded above to mean a batting order slot, not literally "person".
So, “can only pinch run for that person” does not mean Annabelle cannot run for Clarissa.
Do you agree?

CecilOne Fri May 04, 2018 06:39am

Quote:

Originally Posted by CecilOne (Post 1019730)
From the March “clarificatons” about JO pool play:
An EP can be a pinch runner for anyone.
However our Re-entry Rule would still be in effect.
The EP would be considered a substitute for the person they are running so the person who they run for and the EP running will have one more reentry.


What happens if the "anyone" spot comes up again and the "anyone" player has already used re-entry?

Annabelle runs for Beatrice, then Beatrice re-enters and bats again.
1) If Annabelle runs for Beatrice again, does that mean a legal sub must replace Annabelle next time that batting spot comes up?
2) What happens if there are no more subs? Shorthanded?

Tru_in_Blu Wed May 09, 2018 12:36pm

We have our first USA tournament this coming weekend. I'm dreading the clusters that this rule is going to cause. Coaches don't know the rule, umpires don't know the rule.

I do have a question, but maybe no one is answering questions because nobody knows... :eek:

Question - coach used a CR for F1 or F2 which was a risk based on the fact that CR might be due up to bat. Coach realizes this when there is 1 or 2 outs and now wants to insert a "pinch runner" for F1 or F2, thus removing the CR from the base so as not to take an out when she is due to bat. Allow?

Remember - An EP can be a pinch runner for anyone.

When exactly would the player that the CR is running for be declared out? Who would notify the umpire? Could the coach ask for time and state he has a "pinch runner" for the F1 or F2 that had the CR? Would the offense simply try to skip over that batter and hope it wasn't noticed?

[sigh...]

Tru_in_Blu Sun Jun 24, 2018 11:54am

More pool play stuff. We hosted an invitational this weekend. Saturday was pool play.

Starter #13

Substitute #11 for #13

Re-enter #13

Coach: "Blue, I want to re-enter #11 and use #13 as a pinch runner."

Me: "Hold on coach, let's do this one at a time. You want to re-enter #11? If so, that means #13 is out and has no re-entries left. Is that what you want to do?"

Coach: "I can't use her (#13) as a pinch runner?"

Me: "No, she will be considered out of the game."

Coach: "OK, never mind."

Me: "So you have no changes at this time?"

Coach: "No changes."

Question which didn't come up and which never was pursued:

If there was a pitcher or catcher on base at the time (bases were actually loaded, although I wasn't sure if a pitcher or catcher was one of the runners), could the coach have made the re-entry of #11, removing #13 from the bases. Then, could #13 have been a CR for a pitcher or catcher on base? (There had been no CR usage up to this point in the game.)

Tru_in_Blu Tue Jun 26, 2018 10:48am

Hey, Ceese,

You were right about no one answering questions on this post.

Gets lots of views, but no answers.

Guess no one knows or really cares about pool play. :eek:

Duke Tue Jun 26, 2018 11:52am

I'll take a shot at this. I would allow #13 to be a CR under the pool play EP rules. Rule states any player on the roster can be a CR. All other rules do apply to the CR though with the exception of C which states player can not have been in the game.

I am heading into my first JO tourney this weekend so should be interesting.

BretMan Tue Jun 26, 2018 02:29pm

A "what if" roster batting question I was thinking about this morning...

Team is batting the entire roster in pool play- let's say 14 batters.

Somewhere along the line, B7 is injured. Coach removes her from the line-up, but doesn't report this to the umpire.

Next time through, B6 completes her at-bat, then B8 comes to the plate. B8 completes at-bat, then defensive coach protests batting out of order.

Is there a such a thing as an unreported line-up compression???

And if there is, what is the penalty??? :confused:

CecilOne Tue Jun 26, 2018 03:28pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BretMan (Post 1022518)
A "what if" roster batting question I was thinking about this morning...

Team is batting the entire roster in pool play- let's say 14 batters.

Somewhere along the line, B7 is injured. Coach removes her from the line-up, but doesn't report this to the umpire.

Next time through, B6 completes her at-bat, then B8 comes to the plate. B8 completes at-bat, then defensive coach protests batting out of order.

Is there a such a thing as an unreported line-up compression???

And if there is, what is the penalty??? :confused:

If umpires did not know B7 was removed, she is still in the lineup. It does not matter if the defense knows unless the umpires do.

BretMan Wed Jun 27, 2018 11:58am

Quote:

Originally Posted by CecilOne (Post 1022519)
If umpires did not know B7 was removed, she is still in the lineup. It does not matter if the defense knows unless the umpires do.

That's what I was thinking. But, which rule tells us that a "compression" must be reported to the umpire?

CecilOne Wed Jun 27, 2018 12:15pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BretMan (Post 1022544)
That's what I was thinking. But, which rule tells us that a "compression" must be reported to the umpire?

Maybe RS 51, by implication.

My point was that if not reported, it stays the same.

CecilOne Wed Jun 27, 2018 03:00pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tru_in_Blu (Post 1022461)
More pool play stuff. Question which didn't come up and which never was pursued:

If there was a pitcher or catcher on base at the time (bases were actually loaded, although I wasn't sure if a pitcher or catcher was one of the runners), could the coach have made the re-entry of #11, removing #13 from the bases. Then, could #13 have been a CR for a pitcher or catcher on base? (There had been no CR usage up to this point in the game.)

I have to agree with Duke, any player may be CR; in this case #13 whether she has re-entry or not.

For the original sub comment, you did not say #13 was on base. Ok, then #11 would be on base; leaving 2 other possible runners as pitcher or catcher .

Given coaches general weakness on terms ("the SS interfered" :rolleyes: ); I suggest asking the coach if he/she meant pinch runner or courtesy runner.


Pool play lineup exceptions have been ambiguous at best. :rolleyes:

IRISHMAFIA Wed Jun 27, 2018 08:22pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BretMan (Post 1022544)
That's what I was thinking. But, which rule tells us that a "compression" must be reported to the umpire?

Do you know of any other instance where the batting order changes where the changes is no required to be reported?


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