NCAA rules clinic

[Crabby_Bob]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

I would love to know what influenced such a change.

Coach reports Flex batting for DP (who is only playing offense). At the end of the half-inning, the coach wants to reenter the DP. That was a projected substitution under the old rule. (Still is in the sense that it may be several innings before the DP's spot comes to bat again.) The coach was to be told to reenter the DP when the DP was due to bat. Coaches being coaches, they would forget and potentially be hit with an unreported substitute violation.

That and if substitutes on offense are taken one at a time, it slows the game down.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Crabby_Bob

Coach reports Flex batting for DP (who is only playing offense). At the end of the half-inning, the coach wants to reenter the DP. That was a projected substitution under the old rule. (Still is in the sense that it may be several innings before the DP's spot comes to bat again.) The coach was to be told to reenter the DP when the DP was due to bat. Coaches being coaches, they would forget and potentially be hit with an unreported substitute violation.

That and if substitutes on offense are taken one at a time, it slows the game down.

I disagree that it would be a projected substitute. I've been dealing with attempted projected substitutes for a quarter of a entry and IMO that is a misinterpretation. While it may not be a smart move by the coach, there is no requirement for a player being entered in the batting order to make an immediate appearance as a batter. Then again, the BS I've seen thrown around NFHS recently, I have often wondered how many actually know what a projected sub is.

[Crabby_Bob]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

I disagree that it would be a projected substitute. I've been dealing with attempted projected substitutes for a quarter of a entry and IMO that is a misinterpretation. While it may not be a smart move by the coach, there is no requirement for a player being entered in the batting order to make an immediate appearance as a batter. Then again, the BS I've seen thrown around NFHS recently, I have often wondered how many actually know what a projected sub is.

I don't disagree at all [with you]. One can only work with the interpretations handed down.

[teebob21]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

(snip) there is no requirement for a player being entered in the batting order to make an immediate appearance as a batter

Last year's NCAA ruleset/interpretations did require this. For example, if the 4-5-6 batters were due up in the inning, Coach could not sub for B5 until her turn to bat. It was not intuitive, slowed the game, and complicated things with respect to DP/Flex. IMO, they fixed it, which is why I said earlier that I think this is a positive rule change.

[jmkupka]

However, Teebob, if the Defense coach wanted to pull his shortstop when she tanked a play, even if she's due to bat 5th in the upcoming at-bat, we still accepted that change. Go figure.

[youngump]

Originally Posted by jmkupka

However, Teebob, if the Defense coach wanted to pull his shortstop when she tanked a play, even if she's due to bat 5th in the upcoming at-bat, we still accepted that change. Go figure.

I found this post confusing. I'm not sure in what way it's a however. Let me restate my understanding.

Play: F6 commits a throwing error which results in a run scoring. The third out is recorded later in the same play.
NCAA last year: F6 cannot be replaced until she is due to bat.
NCAA this year and every other 4 base code: F6 can be replaced now even though she won't be up to bat until 5th in the inning.

Is that how we all understand it?

[Tru_in_Blu]

Originally Posted by youngump

I found this post confusing. I'm not sure in what way it's a however. Let me restate my understanding.

Play: F6 commits a throwing error which results in a run scoring. The third out is recorded later in the same play.
NCAA last year: F6 cannot be replaced until she is due to bat.
NCAA this year and every other 4 base code: F6 can be replaced now even though she won't be up to bat until 5th in the inning.

Is that how we all understand it?

I don't do NCAA, so haven't followed this thread that closely. But the comment about "F6 cannot be replaced until she is due to bat" simply makes no sense at all. That eliminates ANY defensive substitutions.

What would happen if a defensive player were injured? Or a coach wanted to make a multiple position swap by moving the current pitcher to another defensive position, removing the player at that position, and entering a new pitcher?

I don't mean to further confuse the issue, but apparently this thread doesn't need my help to do that.

[Crabby_Bob]

Originally Posted by Tru_in_Blu

I don't do NCAA, so haven't followed this thread that closely. But the comment about "F6 cannot be replaced until she is due to bat" simply makes no sense at all. That eliminates ANY defensive substitutions.

What would happen if a defensive player were injured? Or a coach wanted to make a multiple position swap by moving the current pitcher to another defensive position, removing the player at that position, and entering a new pitcher?

I don't mean to further confuse the issue, but apparently this thread doesn't need my help to do that.

Old Rule:
8.5.1.1 Any player may be substituted for at any time when the ball is dead as long as she immediately participates in the game.

If F6 does not come to bat in the next half-inning, the substitution can take place when her team takes the field on defense.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by teebob21

Last year's NCAA ruleset/interpretations did require this. For example, if the 4-5-6 batters were due up in the inning, Coach could not sub for B5 until her turn to bat. It was not intuitive, slowed the game, and complicated things with respect to DP/Flex. IMO, they fixed it, which is why I said earlier that I think this is a positive rule change.

IMO, this is a result of a complete misunderstanding of alleged softball people of the definition of a projected substitute.

It is easier than understanding the effect of an infield fly. I believe there is too much emphasis placed on a player's defensive position or batting order slot. Making a change is not that difficult and when you make it, the change is effective immediately. Not next inning, not whenever the coaches ask it to be or any other time.

Again, it is not hard to understand. It doesn't delay the game or affect the flow. At least it hasn't for over 80 years of softball.

Going in any other direction can only set up the umpire and coach for possible failure at some point in the game.