|
|||
Passing a preceding runner
Working in the C ball world last weekend. This convoluted play happened.
I am in C slot. Runners at 1st and 3rd. No outs. B1 hits sky high ball toward pitcher. It looks like she catches the ball, but then drops it. Plate ump signals fair ball. Correct call. R1 on third decides to go toward home but then retreats to 3rd. But pitcher picks up ball and looks toward 2nd. R1 then takes off for home, stops, retreats back to third but finally goes all the way home. Play at plate. R1 is out. Pitcher now throws toward 2nd (with fielder off the bag). R2 hasn't made it all the way to 2nd yet. R2 must think that there was a catch because she seems confused. She goes back and forth in between bases (touching neither one) with no one tagging her. Meanwhile R3 has attained 1st and is standing on it. R2 then must have decided a catch has been made so she heads toward the 1st base dugout, passing in front of R3 . When R2 gets close to dead ball territory (but not in), R2 breaks for 2nd and makes it with no play made on her. Now R3 decides to step into the dugout. I call her out for leaving the field of play. So...was R3 out for passing a preceding runner even though she was standing on 1st and R2 passed her going to the dugout? I honestly was so confused by the whole situation that I did not call R3 out. And I think I was wrong. What say you? |
|
|||
I don't work USSSA but I have two outs here.
R1 (starting on 3B) is out on the play at the plate. The batter/runner, who ended up leaving the field of play by entering the dugout, is also out for sure...and is maybe out already for passing a leading runner. R2 can't be called out since the trail runner gets called out for passing a leading runner....in this case, the R3/BR. 2 outs, R2 on 2B. New batter, please. This is definitely Class C ball. I recognize the trainwreck.
__________________
Powder blue since 1998. Longtime forum lurker. Umpiring Goals: Call the knee strike accurately (getting the low pitch since 2017)/NCAA D1 postseason/ISF-WBSC Certification/Nat'l Indicator Fraternity(completed) "I'm gonna call it ASA for the foreseeable future. You all know what I mean." |
|
|||
I think Jimmy messed up the runner's descriptors twice. This is what I have:
Runner from 3b out at the plate. 1 out. The runner (between bases) gives up and heads to the dugout. I think. B/R, on 1B, sees this and heads for 2B. I think. 2 outs (passing a runner). Runner from between the bases enters the dugout. I think. 3 outs (leaving the field). Please tell me I'm wrong about this circus. Last edited by jmkupka; Wed Oct 18, 2017 at 07:22am. |
|
|||
Quote:
I think R3 (runner starting at third) was thrown out at home. Then, R1 got confused as she was between first and second, and passed the BR as she headed to the dugout on the first base side. Then, R1 turned around and decided to run to second base and made it safely. The BR, for whatever reason, then retreated into the dugout and was ruled out for abandoning the bases. The question Little Jimmy asked: Does R1's passing of first base as she headed to the dugout result in the BR being ruled out for "passing" R1? Even though the BR did nothing wrong initially, should she be ruled out since she's now ahead of R1 on the base path? I would say Yes, she should have been called out, even though she wasn't the one who physically passed R1. The rule on passing doesn't cut the trail runner any slack when the lead runner goes behind her while running in the opposite direction.
__________________
"Let's face it. Umpiring is not an easy or happy way to make a living. In the abuse they suffer, and the pay they get for it, you see an imbalance that can only be explained by their need to stay close to a game they can't resist." -- Bob Uecker |
|
|||
"When R2 gets close to dead ball territory (but not in), R2 breaks for 2nd and makes it with no play made on her. Now R3 decides to step into the dugout. I call her out for leaving the field of play."
No way of knowing, Manny... I think the RED R2 was between the bases, and the GREEN R2 was on 1B (and should've been named R3). Then RED R2 became R3 and stepped into the dugout (should've stayed named R2). Let Jimmy fix the names and start over... |
|
|||
Quote:
R1 started on 3rd, followed by a play at home. R2 started on 1st, caused the confusion between 1st and 2nd, etc. R3 was the BR, correctly renamed R3 when she attained 1st. I don't believe R3 out for passing is the intent of the rule, but literally she ends up ahead of R2. That would make R3 out, if interpreted that way. R1 obviously out, R2 safe at 2nd. I don't see any 3 out play. Also, I doubt it makes any difference how many S's are in the title or any other letters (always ignoring NCAA).
__________________
Officiating takes more than OJT. It's not our jobs to invent rulings to fit our personal idea of what should and should not be. |
|
|||
R2 goes from between the bases, all the way (but not into) the dugout, then all the way back to 2B, without a play being made on her. Then R3 goes into the dugout.
Is there a base coach anywhere nearby? madness. |
|
|||
Sooooo, if the bases were loaded to start, and the BR attains first base, she becomes R4??
__________________
"Let's face it. Umpiring is not an easy or happy way to make a living. In the abuse they suffer, and the pay they get for it, you see an imbalance that can only be explained by their need to stay close to a game they can't resist." -- Bob Uecker |
|
|||
Quote:
Actually, Cecil, I'm not sure it is correct to re-designate a player during the play description (whichever nomenclature you start with). One thing I do not like, though, is the mixing of nomenclature. I say use the softball designation (same for all codes, except NCAA --- which, BTW, is true for a lot of things about softball, not just nomenclature...) on this board. Don't make it a religious issue, just avoid confusion by all using the same designation system. Over on the BB board, by all means say "R3", but here, say "R1 on 3B". Just my humble suggestion. (OK, maybe not so humble... )
__________________
Tom |
|
|||
I know you were being tongue-in-cheek, but No, not really. The CCA Manual refers to her simply as "the runner". In fact, there is no reference in the CCA to a BR; she is "the runner" the moment she hits the ball fairly.
__________________
"Let's face it. Umpiring is not an easy or happy way to make a living. In the abuse they suffer, and the pay they get for it, you see an imbalance that can only be explained by their need to stay close to a game they can't resist." -- Bob Uecker |
|
|||
Quote:
Quote:
-------------------------------- BUT, let's stay on topic.
__________________
Officiating takes more than OJT. It's not our jobs to invent rulings to fit our personal idea of what should and should not be. |
|
|||
jmkupka was right. I misstated the specifics. I looked over the post numerous times to make sure I got it right before I sent it out. But I missed it. Below is the correct info in red. My fault.
Working in the C ball world last weekend. This convoluted play happened. I am in C slot. Runners at 1st and 3rd. No outs. B1 hits sky high ball toward pitcher. It looks like she catches the ball, but then drops it. Plate ump signals fair ball. Correct call. R1 on third decides to go toward home but then retreats to 3rd. But pitcher picks up ball and looks toward 2nd. R1 then takes off for home, stops, retreats back to third but finally goes all the way home. Play at plate. R1 is out. Pitcher now throws toward 2nd (with fielder off the bag). R2 hasn't made it all the way to 2nd yet. R2 must think that there was a catch because she seems confused. She goes back and forth in between bases (touching neither one) with no one tagging her. Meanwhile R3 has attained 1st and is standing on it. R2 then must have decided a catch has been made so she heads toward the 1st base dugout, passing in front of R3 . When R2 gets close to dead ball territory (but not in) R3 breaks for 2nd and makes it with no play made on her. Now R2 decides to step into the dugout. I call her out for leaving the field of play. So...was R3 out for passing a preceding runner even though she was standing on 1st and R2 passed her going to the dugout? I honestly was so confused by the whole situation that I did not call R3 out. And I think I was wrong. What say you? |
|
|||
Quote:
Same answer: "I don't believe R3 out for passing is the intent of the rule, but literally she ends up ahead of R2. That would make R3 out, if interpreted that way. " Although now, R2 is out, R3 would be at 2nd if the passing rule does not apply.
__________________
Officiating takes more than OJT. It's not our jobs to invent rulings to fit our personal idea of what should and should not be. |
Bookmarks |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
runner passing preceding runner | Tru_in_Blu | Softball | 15 | Tue Feb 02, 2016 11:19pm |
base runner passing another runner | wyo-referee | Baseball | 2 | Mon Jun 10, 2013 11:41pm |
Passing a runner | IRISHMAFIA | Softball | 20 | Fri Sep 14, 2007 12:12pm |
Passing another runner. | JRutledge | Baseball | 3 | Sat Apr 30, 2005 11:40pm |
Passing runner | greymule | Baseball | 6 | Tue Sep 24, 2002 01:59pm |