Home run or not???

[Linknblue]

Temp fence. Ball to outfield, OF goes back, steps on fence enough to tilt the fence out about a foot. Ball come down on top of now tilted fence and bounces over fence.

OF did not touch ball. Is this a home run or a ground rule double?

The logic used was that the OF caused the fence to be tilted thus it's a ground rule double. That's what was ruled. Didn't make sense to me at the time but wasn't my call in final decision.

I'm say home run because the top of the fence was even further back from normal and if ball hit the top of the tilted fence it would have been out of the park with a non tilted fence.

What say you?

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by Linknblue

The logic used was that the OF caused the fence to be tilted thus it's a ground rule double. That's what was ruled. Didn't make sense to me at the time but wasn't my call in final decision.

Penalizing the batter because the defense moved the fence???

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by Linknblue

Temp fence. Ball to outfield, OF goes back, steps on fence enough to tilt the fence out about a foot. Ball come down on top of now tilted fence and bounces over fence.
OF did not touch ball. Is this a home run or a ground rule double?

The logic used was that the OF caused the fence to be tilted thus it's a ground rule double. That's what was ruled. Didn't make sense to me at the time but wasn't my call in final decision.

I'm say home run because the top of the fence was even further back from normal and if ball hit the top of the tilted fence it would have been out of the park with a non tilted fence.

What say you?

I don't think which rule set matters because ball was past both bottom of fence and top of fence. Please correct me if it matters.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

Penalizing the batter because the defense moved the fence???

No, rewarding the defense for a great defensive play!

["Lurker"77]

In the abstract:

If fence fails, the umpire presumably has to insert best judgement as to where it should have been.

If a cheap, bendable fence bends and is the ground-rule defined boundary, absent another specific rule, wouldn't you play the fence as the boundary wherever the wind and reasonable/game-related action takes it? (Otherwise, get a better fence or define a different boundary . . .)

[AtlUmpSteve]

Concepts and thought process:

A batted ball which clears the home run fence in flight over fair territory is a 4 base award (home run). A batted ball which bounds (or is otherwise grounded) over the home run fence in fair territory is a 2 base award.

A batted ball remains in flight until it touches the ground, or another object which "grounds" it.

When a batted ball hits the top of a permanent fence and bounds over, it remains in flight and a home run; thus the fence by itself does not ground the ball. Equally, the defensive player alone does not ground the ball. Only a ball which hits the fence THEN the defensive player is grounded.

Every major rule set addresses a displaced temporary fence. In USA/ASA, it remains part of live ball territory (so far, "in the park"); in NCAA and NFHS, it is a home run if already beyond the base of the fence (home run line).

Conclusion:

Nothing in the OP resulted in the ball being grounded, so by definition it must be in flight. Result stated in first paragraph.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

Concepts and thought process:

A batted ball which clears the home run fence in flight over fair territory is a 4 base award (home run). A batted ball which bounds (or is otherwise grounded) over the home run fence in fair territory is a 2 base award.

A batted ball remains in flight until it touches the ground, or another object which "grounds" it.

When a batted ball hits the top of a permanent fence and bounds over, it remains in flight and a home run; thus the fence by itself does not ground the ball. Equally, the defensive player alone does not ground the ball. Only a ball which hits the fence THEN the defensive player is grounded.

Every major rule set addresses a displaced temporary fence. In USA/ASA, it remains part of live ball territory (so far, "in the park"); in NCAA and NFHS, it is a home run if already beyond the base of the fence (home run line).

Conclusion:

Nothing in the OP resulted in the ball being grounded, so by definition it must be in flight. Result stated in first paragraph.

Just nitpicking, but I believe something that should be noted since I do not know who is ready this, a ball which touches the fence or wall, temporary or otherwise is no longer "in flight" since that is a term which can be/is construed as a batted ball still available to be legally caught to retire the B/BR.