Out on a home run?

[mastdk96]

Here's the situation R1 on first 2 outs. Batter hits the ball out of the park. As the runners trot around bases R1 gets half way to home plate and walks toward dug out but doesn't enter. Batter-runner trots to home and touches home before R1.
Question here is: Is one of them out? As an umpire do you call anything or wait till the opposing coach appeals? And what do you do if less than 2 outs?

This is for a high school co-ed league that uses ASA rules with a few of their own mixed inbut am looking for the ASA ruling.

[Ed Maeder]

The person that hit the home run is out for passing the runner from first. Third out no runs score. With less then two outs the person that hit the home run is out for passing the runner from first and I'm waiting for an appeal that the runner from first didn't touch home. In both situations no runs score, if the appeal is made with less than two outs. No appeal made one run in second situation. As an umpire you would call the runner out right away for passing another runner. Here we don't run out of the park home runs out so this would be a moot point and all runs would score and no outs would be recorded.

[Edited by Ed Maeder on May 19th, 2005 at 05:26 PM]

[mastdk96]

thanks for the help that is what I called

[Edited by mastdk96 on May 19th, 2005 at 05:28 PM]

[mcrowder]

I bet you caught a LOT of hell for that call... but it was the right call.

[msrock1954]

I'll take a stab at this one Speaking NFHS rules: I believe that R1 is not out yet, so that when R2 passes up R1 and touches HP she has met the criteria of NFHS rule 8-6 art.4 which says "A runner physically passes a preceding runner before that runner has been put out is OUT!!! There's your 3rd out and since R1 hasn't tagged home yet nobody scores??? Not sure what would happen is there was less than 2 outs. I would imagine it would depend on what R1 finally winds up doing, as R2 would still be called out.

[coachfanmom]

That would be 3 laps around the fence after the game for the runner not going the distance on my team!!!

[msrock1954]

That kind of attitude would definitely get my dander up if I was the coach!!!! I'm with you "SUNNY"

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by Ed Maeder
The person that hit the home run is out for passing the runner from first. Third out no runs score. With less then two outs the person that hit the home run is out for passing the runner from first and I'm waiting for an appeal that the runner from first didn't touch home. In both situations no runs score, if the appeal is made with less than two outs. No appeal made one run in second situation. As an umpire you would call the runner out right away for passing another runner. Here we don't run out of the park home runs out so this would be a moot point and all runs would score and no outs would be recorded.

[Edited by Ed Maeder on May 19th, 2005 at 05:26 PM]

This is one of the contradictions in the rule book and case book. Rule 8.7.D does not mention the status of the ball at the time of the passing. POE #39 states that this is a live ball violation which would exclude the application of the rule on an over-the-fence home run. However, several case book plays note that the status is irrelevant to the ruling.

In the scenario above, if R1 stepped away from the basepath used by the following runner, I might see this as not physically passing R1 as, by rule, R1 may determine their own basepath as long as they touch the bases in legal order. However, once the trailer touches home, R1 is out of options and a proper appeal would rule R1 out which means that if the third out, no following runners can score.

JMHO, in light of the contradictions

[mastdk96]

Any other help on this one. I have asked a few other local umpires and say no one is out unless there is an appeal. Can R1 come back and touch home and everything be o.k.? Am I understanding right that a over the fence home run a dead ball, and no outs can be recorded unless an appeal? Wouldnt this be like any other base on a live ball and multiple runners that if they miss a base? "NO call until an appeal"

[mcrowder]

I have an out for passing. No appeal necessary. Now put this team in the first base dugout, and R1 running semi-near home plate, and you need an appeal, as BR would have never passed him.