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Old Mon Jun 12, 2017, 10:52am
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observed contact play

Watched this in a game while I was waiting for my assigned game.

2 runners on, batted ball to OF, throw to home.
R1 gets home before ball, but catcher is blocking. They collide, just as ball arrives. They fall down, ball gets away, R1 on top of catcher. R2 scores.

Do you agree not OBS, because R1 scored standing without hindrance before the collision?

How would you decide on interference by R1 or not?
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Old Mon Jun 12, 2017, 12:40pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CecilOne View Post
Watched this in a game while I was waiting for my assigned game.

2 runners on, batted ball to OF, throw to home.
R1 gets home before ball, but catcher is blocking. They collide, just as ball arrives. They fall down, ball gets away, R1 on top of catcher. R2 scores.

Do you agree not OBS, because R1 scored standing without hindrance before the collision?

How would you decide on interference by R1 or not?

1) What rule set? NFHS, NCAA, or ASA?

2) When you say R1 "gets home before the ball" do you mean that R1 touched HP?

MTD, Sr.
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Old Mon Jun 12, 2017, 12:45pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CecilOne View Post
Watched this in a game while I was waiting for my assigned game.

2 runners on, batted ball to OF, throw to home.
R1 gets home before ball, but catcher is blocking. They collide, just as ball arrives. They fall down, ball gets away, R1 on top of catcher. R2 scores.

Do you agree not OBS, because R1 scored standing without hindrance before the collision?

How would you decide on interference by R1 or not?
Catcher cannot block the plate without the ball.
Obstruction.
If you feel R2 would have scored without the obstruction then score the run.

Last edited by MT 73; Mon Jun 12, 2017 at 12:56pm.
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Old Mon Jun 12, 2017, 12:54pm
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I'd have to see it but here's my thought process (speaking USA/ASA, but applicable for all codes):

- Did R1 appear to intentionally initiate avoidable or malicious contact with F2 in order to prevent F2 from making a play? If yes, dead ball INT out and possible ejection.
- If yes above, was contact before or after scoring? If before, runner is out; if after, closest-to-home (R2) is out.
- If none of the above apply, did F2 hinder or impede R1 at any point before scoring? If yes, OBS. If no, we have nothing but a collision. Play on.
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Old Mon Jun 12, 2017, 01:20pm
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I posted this question a long time ago. Runner completely intentionally violently takes out an obstructing F2 then touches the plate. At the time, nothing in ASA allowed for an out, with run not scoring. EJ yes, but nothing else. Fed ball allows for an out along with EJ.

Has anything changed?
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Old Mon Jun 12, 2017, 01:29pm
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USA has a crash rule but the fielder must have the ball and be waiting to make a tag.
Nothing in the OP suggested M.C.
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Old Mon Jun 12, 2017, 04:02pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. View Post
1) What rule set? NFHS, NCAA, or ASA?

2) When you say R1 "gets home before the ball" do you mean that R1 touched HP?

MTD, Sr.
1) USA< but I hope it does not matter and don't need NCAA.

2) Yes
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Old Mon Jun 12, 2017, 04:06pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CecilOne View Post
How would you decide on interference by R1 or not?
This is the main question in the OP.

Thanks TB, but ignore any intent possibility, not the case.
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Old Mon Jun 12, 2017, 06:07pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmkupka View Post
I posted this question a long time ago. Runner completely intentionally violently takes out an obstructing F2 then touches the plate. At the time, nothing in ASA allowed for an out, with run not scoring. EJ yes, but nothing else. Fed ball allows for an out along with EJ.

Has anything changed?
I remember this conversation. To my recollection, nothing has changed. Per USA/ASA rules, if F2 was not making a play by preparing to catch a thrown ball, there is no rule support for an interference out. The run counts, as does the ejection. NFHS has an automatic out + ejection for MC by a runner, as you point out. As a matter of fact, this is the same as the NCAA rule, and it's the reason for my only ejection thus far this year. F2 obstructing but no play, R1 throws an elbow into F2 while scoring. Count the run, and we need a new fielder to play second base (R1 was F4 for the offense, if that's not clear).

Cecil - my original response to your OP was going to be one word: "Intent." But...I knew that would derail the post. My original flowchart of an answer still stands... If no intent and the runner scored before "OBS", I have nothing. Again, how would I decide on INT: intent.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MT 73 View Post
USA has a crash rule but the fielder must have the ball and be waiting to make a tag.
Nothing in the OP suggested M.C.
This is a good point. In fact, the crash Rules Supplement (RS #13.F) points out that if the fielder is drawn into the runner due to the path of the thrown ball, it is explicitly NOT a crash, and thus not INT.

While I hate the phrase "players doing what they are supposed to do", it's applicable sometimes. You can have contact and you can have a collision without necessarily having OBS or INT. AND HERE'S WHY WE GET THE BIG BUCKS....you can have zero contact sometimes and still have OBS or INT.
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2016 Game Counts -- Travel Ball: 57 | Juco: 32 | HS: 14 | NAIA: 10 | NCAA: 5 | NCAA Fall Ball: 12 | Camp: 5 | Three-man: 30 | EJ's: 1

2017 Game Counts -- Travel Ball: 26 | Juco: 32 | HS: 14 | NCAA: 2 | Three-man: 12 | EJ's: 1

Last edited by teebob21; Mon Jun 12, 2017 at 06:14pm.
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Old Wed Jun 14, 2017, 08:18am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teebob21 View Post

This is a good point. In fact, the crash Rules Supplement (RS #13.F) points out that if the fielder is drawn into the runner due to the path of the thrown ball, it is explicitly NOT a crash, and thus not INT.
Yet many umpires want to use this to also say there is no OBS and that simply is not stated here. This sentence is to address the point that a runner cannot control the actions of a defender or prevent the defender from stepping in front of them at the last second causing a collision.


And I would love to see contact without the ball and no OBS
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