Ball hits batter

[Blueplate]

8.1.2.b
Penalty 2
If the batter is hit anywhere on the body,including the hands,while swinging at a pitch,and hits the ball fair or foul,the ball is dead and a strike called. If it is strike 3,the batter is out.

...and hits the ball fair or foul...
It is my understanding that a ball cannot be hit fair or foul unless it has been struck by the bat..and if so then this rule is saying that the bat struck the ball at sometime.

So on 3rd strike, if a ball hits batter then bat, DB,strike,batter out.

But,if a ball hits the bat then batter on 3rd strike,DB,foul ball???
Does that not contradict the rule...ball hit foul or fair...3rd strike batter out???

[MT 73]

Originally Posted by Blueplate

8.1.2.b
Penalty 2
If the batter is hit anywhere on the body,including the hands,while swinging at a pitch,and hits the ball fair or foul,the ball is dead and a strike called. If it is strike 3,the batter is out.

...and hits the ball fair or foul...
It is my understanding that a ball cannot be hit fair or foul unless it has been struck by the bat..and if so then this rule is saying that the bat struck the ball at sometime.

So on 3rd strike, if a ball hits batter then bat, DB,strike,batter out.

But,if a ball hits the bat then batter on 3rd strike,DB,foul ball???
Does that not contradict the rule...ball hit foul or fair...3rd strike batter out???

Quite frankly that first part is a very poorly worded rule.
Sounds as if they are trying to state that the hands are not part of the bat but in a really weird way.
Once the pitch hits the batter the ball is dead so whatever happens to the ball after that is inconsequential.
And yes, the ball must be struck with the bat for it to be fair or foul.
If the pitch hits the bat and rolls fair it is a fair ball.
If it rolls foul it is foul.
If it hits the bat and then hits the batter--and she is still in the batters box-- it is a foul ball.
If the pitch strikes the batter and then hits the bat the ball is dead because this is still considered a HBP
So on the 3rd strike if the ball hits the batter and then the bat we have a hit by pitch situation.
Dead ball runner advances unless she was swinging or if the hit part of her body was in the strike zone.
I think that pretty much covers all possibilities, yes?

[teebob21]

As the most plausible example, if the batter swings and is hit in the hands when she makes contact, it is still a dead ball strike, even if somehow she hits a home run.

The ball is dead the instant it touches the batter, no matter what, every time. Nothing else happens with respect to the runners or the ball.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by Blueplate

...and hits the ball fair or foul...
It is my understanding that a ball cannot be hit fair or foul unless it has been struck by the bat..and if so then this rule is saying that the bat struck the ball at sometime.

So on 3rd strike, if a ball hits batter then bat, DB,strike,batter out.

But,if a ball hits the bat then batter on 3rd strike,DB,foul ball???
Does that not contradict the rule...ball hit foul or fair...3rd strike batter out???

The phrase you quoted is meant to make the rule all inclusive, that is, even if the batter makes the ball go into fair or foul territory from body contact; it is still dead ball and if swinging a strike.

Also, what teebob said.

[MT 73]

Originally Posted by teebob21

As the most plausible example, if the batter swings and is hit in the hands when she makes contact, it is still a dead ball strike, even if somehow she hits a home run.

The ball is dead the instant it touches the batter, no matter what, every time. Nothing else happens with respect to the runners or the ball.

Once in a 10u baseball game that I was umpiring solo the batter was struck in the helmet in a bases loaded situation.
Ball rolls fair, batter takes off for 1B and the defense starts throwing the ball away numerous times.
End result-- offense thinks they just won the game with grand slam.
Once the cheering finally ceased I had to step in, raise my hands and send everyone back to reality.
Yes, as Teebob stated once the batter is hit with the pitch the ball is dead.
Then you can decide what awards, if any, are to be made.

[MT 73]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

The phrase you quoted is meant to make the rule all inclusive, that is, even if the batter makes the ball go into fair or foul territory from body contact; it is still dead ball and if swinging a strike.

Also, what teebob said.

Well they sure as heck blew that one since that is the only rule book that states it that way.
And as the OP rightfully pointed out, you cannot have a fair/ foul ball on any HBP situation.
Then again, that is one of the 40 myths of baseball/softball.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by MT 73

Well they sure as heck blew that one since that is the only rule book that makes a simple concept overly complicated.
Then again, that is one of the 40 myths of baseball/softball.

Of which, I only accept 39, with apologies to Alfred Hitchcock.

[MT 73]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

Of which, I only accept 39, with apologies to Alfred Hitchcock.

Since MLB now declares the batter out if he fails to advance to first after leaving the circle-- or lingers in the box to take off equipment--it really is 39 myths.
Except in most softball codes as well as Federation baseball.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by MT 73

Since MLB now declares the batter out if he fails to advance to first after leaving the circle-- or lingers in the box to take off equipment--it really is 39 myths.
Except in most softball codes as well as Federation baseball.

Which one did you drop, as I don't understand your references?

BTW, notice I did not start with questioning MLB or "the circle" or wise crack about them.

[MT 73]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

Which one did you drop, as I don't understand your references?

BTW, notice I did not start with questioning MLB or "the circle" or wise crack about them.

http://files.leagueathletics.com/Ima...lRuleMyths.pdf
The 40 myths that I mentioned have to do with MLB baseball although quite are few do pertain to softball as well.
The rule that was changed in 2006 was that a batter who failed to advance to 1B could do so until he reached the dougout.
After an incident in 2005 it was changed that as soon as he left the area around home plate ( which is called the batters circle) he was to be declared out.
Unfortunately myth # 10 still follows the pre 2005 rule set--although the above link does show the difference in some codes.
Yes, this is a softball forum, but you did ask...
So tell me, since you only accept 39 myths which is the one that does not apply?
PS..myth # 20 shows the obstruction difference between most baseball codes and softball.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by MT 73

Once in a 10u baseball game that I was umpiring solo the batter was struck in the helmet in a bases loaded situation.

Start yelling dead ball and signalling immediately. 10U ... yell louder, step onto the field if you have to. The worst thing you can have in youth ball is some people playing and other people not playing - it's a recipe for injury. Kill this play in no uncertain terms. Immediately.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by MT 73

http://files.leagueathletics.com/Ima...lRuleMyths.pdf
The 40 myths that I mentioned have to do with MLB baseball although quite are few do pertain to softball as well.
The rule that was changed in 2006 was that a batter who failed to advance to 1B could do so until he reached the dougout.
After an incident in 2005 it was changed that as soon as he left the area around home plate ( which is called the batters circle) he was to be declared out.
Unfortunately myth # 10 still follows the pre 2005 rule set--although the above link does show the difference in some codes.
Yes, this is a softball forum, but you did ask...
So tell me, since you only accept 39 myths which is the one that does not apply?
PS..myth # 20 shows the obstruction difference between most baseball codes and softball.

Tie goes to the runner. Not a myth because most believe there are no ties and if there are, the ball has to beat the runner.


A lot of us have trouble with 4 or 5 versions of softball, baseball additions make it more difficult.

[MT 73]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

Start yelling dead ball and signalling immediately. 10U ... yell louder, step onto the field if you have to. The worst thing you can have in youth ball is some people playing and other people not playing - it's a recipe for injury. Kill this play in no uncertain terms. Immediately.

I did. Loudly and with arms waving.
Walked up halfway to the mound but it was as if I was invisible.
Nobody listened so I let the circus play out.

[chapmaja]

Originally Posted by Blueplate

8.1.2.b
Penalty 2
If the batter is hit anywhere on the body,including the hands,while swinging at a pitch,and hits the ball fair or foul,the ball is dead and a strike called. If it is strike 3,the batter is out.

...and hits the ball fair or foul...
It is my understanding that a ball cannot be hit fair or foul unless it has been struck by the bat..and if so then this rule is saying that the bat struck the ball at sometime.

So on 3rd strike, if a ball hits batter then bat, DB,strike,batter out.

But,if a ball hits the bat then batter on 3rd strike,DB,foul ball???
Does that not contradict the rule...ball hit foul or fair...3rd strike batter out???

In regards to this part. If the ball hits the bat, then hits the batter it most likely will have attained a position of being a foul ball. A ball that hits a batter in the batters box is a foul ball. The only why this could be a tricky call is if the batter is a slap hitter and hits the ball with the bat, then enters fair territory and is it by the ball. In this case the batter would be out.

[Manny A]

I was once taught early in my umpiring career (back when I was only doing LL Baseball) that when you hear the ball hit the bat and also see the batter immediately act in pain since the ball caught his/her hand, you should judge:

1. That if the batter was trying to avoid the pitch, send him/her to first base because the ball hit the batter first and then hit the bat.

2. That if the batter offered at the pitch, then consider it a foul ball because the ball hit the bat first and then hit the batter. That way, if he/she had two strikes at the time, you're not ruling him/her out on a dead ball strike.

The theory was that there's no way we can actually tell what was hit first, the batter or the bat. So why rule in favor of the pitcher who delivered a pitch that was too far inside?