NFHS--Overrunning first--different question

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

The best explanation I have been given to this question came from the Deputy National Director of Umpire HP. He said (at that time, probably 20 or more years ago) it was listed as an appeal because the player is asking for a ruling if the runner is protected as simply overrunning first base, or if in jeopardy because the umpire judges a move toward second that removes that protection.

And, like the other items listed as an appeal, if they don't ask, we don't tell them or indicate in any way that the runner is in jeopardy. We wouldn't rule on the runner being routinely tagged on a return to first base after missing the base, unless appealed, right? In the same way, we don't rule on this, either, unless appealed.

Well, with all due respect to HP, his interpretation isn't supported by the definition.

[Manny A]

Just to muddy the waters even more, here's what's in the NCAA rule book:

7.1 Appeals
7.1.1 An appeal is a play or rule violation on which the umpire does not
make a ruling until requested by a coach or player. The following may
be appealed:
7.1.1.1 Attempting to advance to second base after making the turn at or
overrunning first base. (See Rule 12.24.)
7.1.1.1.1 Must be a live-ball appeal.
7.1.1.1.2 Must be made before the batter-runner returns to first base.

And then this:

12.24 Overrunning or Oversliding Bases
.
.
.
12.24.2 If the batter-runner feints or makes an attempt to advance to second, she may be tagged out (while she is off base) by a defensive player with the ball.
EFFECT—See Rule 7.1.1.1.

So the book recognizes under 12.24.2 that a BR who feints or makes an attempt to advance to second may be tagged out. Reading that alone makes you believe an appeal is not necessary. But then the Effect refers us back to 7.1.1.1 that says it must be a live-ball appeal.

This concept just needs to go away in softball. There's nothing like it in baseball anywhere. Over "there", it is accepted that a BR who attempts or feints an attempt toward second after overrunning first may be simply tagged without any question.

[BretMan]

I like outs...

I'd consider the tag to be an unmistakable/obvious appeal!

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by BretMan

I like outs...

I'd consider the tag to be an unmistakable/obvious appeal!

I like outs as well, Bret!

To be honest, this is nothing more than an academic discussion. To this day, I can safely say I've never seen it play out where a BR overruns first base, makes an attempt or feint to second, nobody on defense sees her do it, and then as she saunters back to first base, the fielder with the ball lays a nonchalant tag on her just because it's something she does to every BR who comes back to the bag.

But in the event that it does, I don't want to be the umpire who rules the BR out, and then the savvy head coach argues, "Hey Blue, where was the appeal on that?!"

Then again, the likelihood that there's a head coach out there who really knows what the rule requires is even slimmer than the play happening in the first place!