video says it all

[derwil]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

I wish the video went longer. I would bet dollars to doughnuts that robbie is right, and this guy corrected it nearly immediately. I bet this was "wrong signal" and not simply a horrific call.

This happened in the Association next to where I call for HS. As you can imagine, it's been a point of discussion.

The game was a decent Fultondale team vs. a very bad Birmingham City School - "Minor". Think of 8u/10u bad vs HS Varsity. The score at the time was 19-2 Fultondale in the top of the 3rd. The umpire was looking for an out and picked a crappy time to try and get one. He is normally not a bad umpire and I have worked with him on several occasions. He just made a bad choice that got caught on video.

Unfortunately after the call, it got a little ugly with the umpire telling the coach to "get back in the dugout or you're gone". Again, not a great move. The video and story has now gone viral nationwide. I've receive two e-mails today from a college assigner and our State HS director tell all members to unlink the post and to not share it.

I'm thankful that all the stupid decisions I've made over the years aren't on video. While it is funny to think that the guy who made the call did a poor job and, quite frankly, sucks - he is still one of our fellow officials and normally a very good one.

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by derwil

The score at the time was 19-2 Fultondale in the top of the 3rd. The umpire was looking for an out and picked a crappy time to try and get one.

Understatement of the Day.

Seriously, when things start getting way out of hand, many umpires will look for ways to stem the bleeding. I don't recommend doing that, but I even get caught up in the moment. Just last week in a HS game, the home team was already up 7-0 in the bottom of the third inning with no outs, and there was no doubt in anyone's mind that the visitors were not going to come close to scoring, and very likely the game would end after 4-1/2 innings. There was a somewhat close play at first that I felt the BR beat. I was in C since there were runners at second and third, and I made the long distance "Out" sell call, which was answered by a loud, "WHAT?!" by the head coach in the third base box. He didn't say anything else, probably realizing why I made that call. But I knew what I had done, and regretted it.

[Mountaincoach]

Originally Posted by RKBUmp

No umpire has the authority to overturn another umpires call, nor should they ever seek to influence or change another umpires call without that umpire asking for assistance. Unless the calling umpire asked the plate umpire for assistance, the plate umpire needs to keep quiet. Even if the calling umpire does ask for additional information, the call is still theirs to keep or change.

Unfortunately, this philosophy will be the reason that umpire will be an internet/youtube sensation for the next few decades for all the wrong reasons, and those kids will remember that for the rest of their lives. I fully understand the philosophy, but it shouldn't be about the umpire creed or whatever of each umpire being their own "island". It should be about the kids and fair play. Officials in other sports help each other out, and we don't see as many of these viral videos that are destined to become legends for generations in their sports.

With regards to the whole blowout thing and trying to get out of there, I've been on both sides of that nightmare. I see probably why he did it, but, like said earlier, he chose the wrong opportunity to stop the bleeding.

[Tru_in_Blu]

I can understand both coaches trying to shorten a blowout game.

With the team ahead at bat, and a runner on third, the third base coach got my attention to tell me the runner was leaving early. After a pitch and a bit of clarification, I called no pitch and his runner out for leaving early. She never left the bag. And everyone was grateful. It turned out to be the last out of the game.

For those who worry about the statistics of their team(s), leaving a base early is a good way to take an out. No need to ask a batter to swing at 3 pitches not close to the strike zone for an out. It's still a "K" in the book, and most hitters don't want that.

[Rich]

All games end eventually. I simply don't make stuff up on the bases.

I might grab an extra strike or two, but I won't end up on YouTube for that.

[Mountaincoach]

Originally Posted by Tru_in_Blu

I can understand both coaches trying to shorten a blowout game.

With the team ahead at bat, and a runner on third, the third base coach got my attention to tell me the runner was leaving early. After a pitch and a bit of clarification, I called no pitch and his runner out for leaving early. She never left the bag. And everyone was grateful. It turned out to be the last out of the game.

For those who worry about the statistics of their team(s), leaving a base early is a good way to take an out. No need to ask a batter to swing at 3 pitches not close to the strike zone for an out. It's still a "K" in the book, and most hitters don't want that.

I agree totally. It's without a doubt the best way to get out of that situation. Head coaches need to discuss that scenario with their base coaches beforehand and have proper signals in place to do that. I had to literally call my 1st base coach once from 3rd base and tell him to do it.

[RKBUmp]

Originally Posted by Mountaincoach

Unfortunately, this philosophy will be the reason that umpire will be an internet/youtube sensation for the next few decades for all the wrong reasons, and those kids will remember that for the rest of their lives. I fully understand the philosophy, but it shouldn't be about the umpire creed or whatever of each umpire being their own "island". It should be about the kids and fair play. Officials in other sports help each other out, and we don't see as many of these viral videos that are destined to become legends for generations in their sports.

With regards to the whole blowout thing and trying to get out of there, I've been on both sides of that nightmare. I see probably why he did it, but, like said earlier, he chose the wrong opportunity to stop the bleeding.

It isn't any umpire Creed, it is written plain and simple in the rule book. It is a written rule, not some unwritten secret code. And even if they had gotten together and changed the call, this would still be all over the internet.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by RKBUmp

It isn't any umpire Creed, it is written plain and simple in the rule book. It is a written rule, not some unwritten secret code. And even if they had gotten together and changed the call, this would still be all over the internet.

Agreed...

And while this particular example might be extremely egregious ... people need to remember that when you saw something differently from your partner (however egregious) ... your partner saw something different from you. And you stick with the original call in cases like that because 99.9% of the time they had a better look, angle, or distance --- that's why the call in question is THEIR call.

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by Mountaincoach

Unfortunately, this philosophy will be the reason that umpire will be an internet/youtube sensation for the next few decades for all the wrong reasons, and those kids will remember that for the rest of their lives. I fully understand the philosophy, but it shouldn't be about the umpire creed or whatever of each umpire being their own "island". It should be about the kids and fair play. Officials in other sports help each other out, and we don't see as many of these viral videos that are destined to become legends for generations in their sports.

But, here's the deal; it's not a philosophy, it's paraphrasing a rule, in every rule book that I have ever seen.

In USA/ASA it's 10.3-B
In NFHS, it's 10-1-4
In NCAA, it's 15.2.8

If the other umpire attempts to interfere or "overrule" the umpire that makes the call, without being asked by the calling umpire, the OTHER team has absolute grounds for a protest that HAS to be upheld.

There are situations where any reasonable umpire would confer with his partner; there are simply times when it cannot properly happen without potentially destroying the integrity of the game. "about the kids and fair play" is EXACTLY why every judgment call should not be subject to oversight with the potential abuse that could come along with that.

The game, as played by human beings, includes errors of commission, omission, and judgment, by players and coaches. Those well meaning individuals espousing the "get it right" philosophy only want it right when 1) it is in their favor to change the call (well, unless the outcome is fully predetermined), and 2) never suggest that anyone consider replaying a pitch/play/out to correct the errors by players and/or coaches. Why are only umpire errors a matter of the "the kids and fair play" philosophy?

[Mountaincoach]

Then the rule needs to be changed. Plain and simple. I know lots of umpires who hate that rule. It's a tradition that needs to stop and catch up with the times. And that umpire should talk to the kid in private someday and say "Hey look, I made a mistake." I also read that he talked mean to the kid and told her to get off the bag so they could continue the game.

[RKBUmp]

The rule is there for a reason.

What umpire would have jurisdiction to overrule another umpire? If you have 3 umpires does it become majority rule? In 2 umpire is it flip a coin?

[robbie]

OK - Not to excuse the call, Part 2...

Based on the story and the above posts, it looks like the U took it in his own hands to expedite the end of a blow out.

I'd bet the fact that the batter bunted for a hit with a 19-2 lead was a contributing factor. Although to be clear, I'm certainly not condoning this.

[robbie]

Funny - I'm sitting here reading the forum and I look up at the TV where "Pardon The Interruption" is playing.

Upcoming topic is "SOFTBALL FAIL." Gee, I wonder what that will be about???

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

...there are simply times when it cannot properly happen without potentially destroying the integrity of the game. "about the kids and fair play" is EXACTLY why every judgment call should not be subject to oversight with the potential abuse that could come along with that.

Unfortunately, that philosophy is slowly working its way out of the sport. The use of video replay to get judgment calls corrected is prevalent in professional baseball, as well as college baseball. I'm not suggesting that video reviews will trickle down to youth sports, but the prevailing attitude is that an umpire's judgment call is no longer as absolute as it was in the past. Fans see how a banger call at first base or a close tag play at second are being challenged by managers, and they think it's high time that those same calls at lower levels should not be subjected to some kind of discussion.

Will the rules change to make all judgment calls "umpiring by committee" decisions where video is not available? Who knows. Us old veterans don't want that to happen, but as we move on, it would not surprise me if changes are made.

[Rich]

In NFHS baseball, a point of emphasis this year is that umpires should not be coming together to discuss calls just cause a coach asks. I was quite happy to see this, as too many umpires think coaches are entitled to "appeal" anything.