Slowpitch Stealing

[IRISHMAFIA]

ASA presently allows stealing in the "A" and above levels of men's slowpitch softball.

Rumor is that Bernie Profato is prepared to introduce expanding this rule to ALL levels of men's slowpitch softball.

Having worked games with stealing, I thought it added a lot to the game. However, I think to bring that down to the lower levels of the game would create more chaos than excitement ESPECIALLY since many SP games are now a single-umpire game.

From what I understand, there is presently nothing suggesting the bases be extended to 70' though I believe this would be an outstanding move by ASA.

What do you all think about it?

[CecilOne]

Yes, stealing adds to the game, one reason FP is better. If it is added, it certainly should be to women's as well as men's. Perhaps both should be phased one level at a time until we see where it becomes chaos; which is most likely with one umpire. I can't imagine it in lower level corec or even mens' D & E; where we have retrievers instead of catchers.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by CecilOne
Yes, stealing adds to the game, one reason FP is better. If it is added, it certainly should be to women's as well as men's. Perhaps both should be phased one level at a time until we see where it becomes chaos; which is most likely with one umpire. I can't imagine it in lower level corec or even mens' D & E; where we have retrievers instead of catchers.

That was the idea four years ago when it was added to the upper levels, to keep the catcher in the game. This, in turn, would help speed up the game.

Also, with a single umpire, it will be difficult to hustle out to make a call as getting to that position will often place the umpire in the middle of the play.

BTW, no such thing as "E" ball in ASA.

[Rick Vietti]

Stealing would be fine, even at lower levels with 2 blues. If that was a standard of leagues, I would probably have to re-evaluate doing slow pitch because we only use one umpire.

I would love ASA to go to 70'. This would solve many of the tough calls for one man mechanics, especially at the lower levels.

I think a better way to keep catchers in the game is to have the ability to pickoff runners at the bases after the pitch crosses the plate. Back in the 80's, I was in Southern Cal. and we had this for leagues.

Very simple, if the runner is off the base after the pitch crossed the plate, the ball could be thrown to the base for a force out play. If the ball is overthrown, that runner can advance to an empty base at their own risk. If the base ahead of them was occupied, then they could not advance.

It added some spice to the game without people getting hurt like you would see with stealing. Teams actually recruited guys to be catchers because of how they handled the pick off attempts.

[oppool]

I observe this years NSA Major slow-pitch World Series where stealing was involved and 70' bases were used. My opinion is it did add to the game at this level BUT new mechanics would be needed for PU even with 2-man being used. Since most catchers like standing upright and allow the ball to hit the ground before catching the PU seems to get in the way quite often. I would prefer they keep it in the upper levels of play and not bring it the lower levels


JMO

Don

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally posted by IRISHMAFIA
ASA presently allows stealing in the "A" and above levels of men's slowpitch softball.

Rumor is that Bernie Profato is prepared to introduce expanding this rule to ALL levels of men's slowpitch softball.

Having worked games with stealing, I thought it added a lot to the game. However, I think to bring that down to the lower levels of the game would create more chaos than excitement ESPECIALLY since many SP games are now a single-umpire game.

From what I understand, there is presently nothing suggesting the bases be extended to 70' though I believe this would be an outstanding move by ASA.

What do you all think about it?

Its nice to see Bernie's name mentioned in this forum. I have known Bernie for over 30 years. He also officiates H.S. basketball and use to officiate women's college basketball.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

Its nice to see Bernie's name mentioned in this forum. I have known Bernie for over 30 years. He also officiates H.S. basketball and use to officiate women's college basketball.

And let's not forget Bernie's other officiating avocation as a boxing official. Every time I've seen him in the ring, even the commentators for that fight speak of him well.

But I may have seen something last February that you haven't....Bernie, speechless, twice in 10 minutes

[Steve M]

Mike,
OK, gotta ask this one. What would/could make Bernie speechless?

Steve M

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by Steve M
Mike,
OK, gotta ask this one. What would/could make Bernie speechless?

Steve M

He was the member of the NUS to introduce the new SP base mechanic. When members of the audience began to argue the move and asked for justification other than saving the umpire's legs, he had no response. A fellow UIC started counting him out as would a boxing ref.

Henry had to take over the discussion which lasted more than 1/2 hour.

Afterwards, Bernie walked out of the session and up to me and one of my DUICs and just stood there looking for something to say. Mike DiLeo came over, put his hands on his hips and just smiled at Bernie.

It just isn't what we all expect from Bernie. I have always known him to be street-wise and quick to pick-up on a situation, but never lacking words.

[CecilOne]

Originally posted by IRISHMAFIA
That was the idea four years ago when it was added to the upper levels, to keep the catcher in the game. This, in turn, would help speed up the game.

Also, with a single umpire, it will be difficult to hustle out to make a call as getting to that position will often place the umpire in the middle of the play.

BTW, no such thing as "E" ball in ASA.

[/B]

Yes, I know there is technically no "E" in ASA, just in actual play. Besides covering the play at 2nd, watching for early leaves would be a worse problem with one umpire. And there would be a lot more catcher obstruction, again at the low levels. Making rules to keep a catcher (or pitcher or whoever) in the game is not a big justification to me; especially in a game designed to keep the hitters active.

Besides, the catcher's have important roles:
- keeping the umpire from throwing the ball back to the pitcher
- standing on the plate so the runner can claim obstruction while the umpire is avoiding the offline throw
- yelling "good pitch" as it sails over his head or hits the batter
- holding up "warmups" while talking to a female spectator
- in corec, getting in the way of the pitcher covering home
- obstructing a runner while moving a bat
- throwing the ball into center field after the fourth "warmup" pitch
- etc.

[scottk_61]

Originally posted by IRISHMAFIA



But I may have seen something last February that you haven't....Bernie, speechless, twice in 10 minutes

Yeah I saw that too, I remember him getting a standing 8 count.
I thought for a minute htat he was going to get a TKO which wouldn't have made many people too upset

[chuck chopper]

I believe in my area that even if stealing was added to the SP game, most leagues I ump would not use it. Catchers usually wait for the pitch to land, then it takes a bad bounce & the catcher has to go chase it...so stealing would be easy. I can see more catchers interference calls also. Would a base runner be able to steal on pitches that land in front of or on the plate ?

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by chuck chopper
I believe in my area that even if stealing was added to the SP game, most leagues I ump would not use it. Catchers usually wait for the pitch to land, then it takes a bad bounce & the catcher has to go chase it...so stealing would be easy. I can see more catchers interference calls also. Would a base runner be able to steal on pitches that land in front of or on the plate ?

They wait for the pitch to land in the upper levels also. When stealing, the runner cannot leave until the ball has reached the plate. Any ball which hits the plate or does not clear the back corners is a dead ball and no stealing is allowed. There is no catcher's OBSTRUCTION.

[Elaine "Lady Blue"]

I think phasing stealing in SP Men's is the right way to go; only for Super, A and maybe B for now. But, what about
women's SP?

Hello Bernie, you KNOW women do exist as players, coaches and umpires! If you think really hard, you'll remember me at your clinics.

I agree too, for the bases to be extended to 70'. Yeppers,
the catchers need to do something other than be Bubbas!

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by Elaine "Lady Blue"
I think phasing stealing in SP Men's is the right way to go; only for Super, A and maybe B for now. But, what about
women's SP?

Hello Bernie, you KNOW women do exist as players, coaches and umpires! If you think really hard, you'll remember me at your clinics.

I agree too, for the bases to be extended to 70'. Yeppers,
the catchers need to do something other than be Bubbas!

Maybe he will include the women's game. I'll let you know once I see the proposed changes.

Thanks,