What's the call?

[BoomerSooner]

Originally Posted by Dakota

OK, got it. But you are not really disputing what has been discussed earlier in this thread, since the fielder in the OP was not 45 feet away. ASA, in fact, caused a number of coaches (and perhaps others) to want obstruction called every time the catcher blocked home, even when the closest runner was just rounding 3rd base. The confusion was caused by their (ASA's) re-writing of the RS dealing with obstruction after they took "about to receive" out of the rule.

Your earlier posts made it seem like you were looking for reasons to not call obstruction because you couldn't be sure why the runner altered her path.

If there was confusion because someone thought I was disputing the comments from previous posts, I'm sorry.

On the field, I never look for a reason to not call obstruction. If it is obstruction, I call it as such and I don't sit there and think that might not have been obstruction because of xyz reason. My point is that I don't consider a runner altering her path because of her perception that she might be obstructed by a fielder to be the basis for my decision. I realize I've used extreme examples in some of my cases, but my experience is that whether we're talking about obstruction or interference, there are many times a runner and fielder come much closer to each other than my examples, and I don't call anything just because one player reacted to the presence of the other.

[jwwashburn]

It is astounding how many people want to make the OBS rule complicated.

The rule is incredibly simple to understand.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by jwwashburn

It is astounding how many people want to make the OBS rule complicated.

The rule is incredibly simple to understand.

Second easiest rule behind the infield fly

[chapmaja]

Originally Posted by chapmaja

Had the following recently in WRECK ball (youth). What's the call?

Play 1: Bases loaded, 2 outs. Ground ball to F5, who runs over and touches 3rd 15 feet before the runner arrives. While the runner was running between 2nd and 3rd, she had to run around F6 who was parked in the middle of the base path.

Play 2: Batted ball is popped up about 10 feet in the air and comes down, off the catchers glove and in between her chest protector and her uniform, from which she grabs the ball securely

(my play she never secured it and it went all the way to the ground)- so I ruled a Foul ball as it was touched in foul territory.

Now that I've seen all the comments on this, I will say I did not call obstruction on this play. The reason I did not is simple. We have to umpire to the level of the players were are umpiring. In this game I think I could have called obstruction on about half the plays. Instead of call obstruction, I let the out at third stand. The coach never said a word (again this is WRECK Youth Ball).

If this had been travel ball or HS ball, yes I would have made the call.

I officiated to the level of the players, and with that I also do a lot of informing about the rules as well. I am actually well respected by the parents, most of the coaches, and most importantly my assigner for handling many of these situations as teachable moments (that is my primary profession after all).

I have had one coach complain about my reminding the players / teaching them the rules this year. I completely understand where she is coming from as she spent about 10 years as a JV and Varsity HC at a local HS. She, unlike the majority of the coach, knows many of the rules (she was wrong wanting an obstruction that game though, her player moved to get out of the way of a infielder attempting to make an initial play on a batter ball (again, it is WRECK Ball).

If I called everything that could be called, we might get one inning in, instead of 4 or 5 in a 2 hour time limit. Another example from the same games were illegal pitches. We have a local rule that says we are not to call illegally pitches at this level, but inform the players and coach. I had some major crow hops, and the separate and bring the hands together 3 or 4 times pitches in that game. When talking to the coach he admitted he really doesn't know the rules on fastpitch pitching, so it's hard for him to teach them.

[Altor]

See, this is where we differ. Call the obstruction. Call it early. Call it often. Call it when the runner is going to reach safely anyways. If they learn in 8U that they can't stand in the base paths, then we don't have to deal with it at 14U. After a couple obstruction calls, the coaches will tell their players not to stand there. It won't take that much away from your 2 hour time limit.

[RKBUmp]

You can explain the rule all you want, until you actually enforce it coaches will do nothing to correct the problem. I have been on both sides of the issue, umpired a rec league for 5-6 years, and then assisted coaching a team in the same league. It drove me absolutely nuts to watch things happen and not be called "because the kids are learning". They will not learn and neither will the coaches unless the rules are actually enforced.

Prime example I have given numerous times. Rec league I worked had the same dont call illegal pitches rule, just inform the coach to correct the problem. Told coaches for 4 years one of the girls was illegal and they needed to fix it. All I ever got was ya, ya, ya, we will fix it. Guess what, the girl got into high school and could never pitch a game because no one ever fixed her illegal motion in rec league.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by RKBUmp

You can explain the rule all you want, until you actually enforce it coaches will do nothing to correct the problem. I have been on both sides of the issue, umpired a rec league for 5-6 years, and then assisted coaching a team in the same league. It drove me absolutely nuts to watch things happen and not be called "because the kids are learning". They will not learn and neither will the coaches unless the rules are actually enforced..

If that is their attitude, they need coaches, not umpires.

When I first started umpiring (baseball), it was an 8-team league. There was no association and everything was in-house. Used same rules as major leagues except for a few modifications which addressed distances and sportsmanship. All teams had scheduled use of the local fields for practice.

I was one of league's umpires (three of us) who made it point to attend at least one practice of every team to talk to the coaches about any rule changes and point out anything I noticed a player doing that could become an issue during a game. All, but one coach appreciated the help. That one coach was a semi-pro player who told me to leave his team alone (mind you, I never talked to the players), that he knew all the rules and we had better be on my toes.

Want to guess which team had more balks, interference and obstruction calls during the season? Want to guess which coach was the only one ejected all season?

If a league wants the umpire's input to help the kids learn, I've always believed this is how that should happen, not on the field during live games where they are playing for position.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by Altor

...It won't take that much away from your 2 hour time limit.

a) "Out."
b) Arm out for obstruction. "Dead ball. Obstruction on the short stop. Runner is safe."

About a 2 sec difference. That WILL add up!

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Dakota

a) "Out."
b) Arm out for obstruction. "Dead ball. Obstruction on the short stop. Runner is safe."

About a 2 sec difference. That WILL add up!

While I don't agree at all with Altor (our motivation should be calling the game correctly. Getting done faster should never be a priority over that) ... in his defense --- not getting the out on this play will lengthen the inning more than 2 seconds.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

While I don't agree at all with Altor (our motivation should be calling the game correctly. Getting done faster should never be a priority over that) ... in his defense --- not getting the out on this play will lengthen the inning more than 2 seconds.

True... I was joking a bit! (Also, as I read it, Altor was also advocating calling the game correctly.)

[Altor]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

While I don't agree at all with Altor (our motivation should be calling the game correctly. Getting done faster should never be a priority over that)

That was not my motivation. My motivation was to call the obstruction now so it doesn't have to be called "when the games count." I added the part about the time limit because chapmaja said he would only get 1 inning done in 2 hours if he called it every time. My time limit comment is that after you call it once or twice, your chances of having to call it again start diminishing.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by Altor

after you call it once or twice, your chances of having to call it again start diminishing.

Yes, Yes!

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Altor

That was not my motivation. My motivation was to call the obstruction now so it doesn't have to be called "when the games count." I added the part about the time limit because chapmaja said he would only get 1 inning done in 2 hours if he called it every time. My time limit comment is that after you call it once or twice, your chances of having to call it again start diminishing.

Ah. My bad. I agree with you.

[jmkupka]

Originally Posted by Dakota

a) "Out."
b) Arm out for obstruction. "Dead ball. Obstruction on the short stop. Runner is safe."

Semi-hijack:
Exact mechanics here, please... debated extensively in the PONY Nationals ump tent:

Tag is put on an obstructed runner (before reaching etc., etc.,)

"Out! Dead ball, obstruction (at whatever location), runner is protected to (X) base."

or

"Dead ball, obstruction (at whatever location), runner is protected to (X) base."

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by jmkupka

Semi-hijack:
Exact mechanics here, please... debated extensively in the PONY Nationals ump tent:

Tag is put on an obstructed runner (before reaching etc., etc.,)

"Out! Dead ball, obstruction (at whatever location), runner is protected to (X) base."

or

"Dead ball, obstruction (at whatever location), runner is protected to (X) base."

"Out", "dead ball", check any other runners position, "runner Y is awarded (X) base because of obstruction by Fx/number".
Award any other runners accordingly.