Do you ever call this?

Dakota · #1 (**permalink**) Wed Sep 17, 2003, 12:29pm

You're the BU. ASA JO fastpitch. Very common situation.

Pitcher sets up with her pivot foot on the front of the plate (say, arch or even the heel at the front edge) so the front of her foot is off the plate. Legal so far.

As she steps forward, she picks up the heel of her pivot foot to push off, but because of the placement of her foot, her actual push off is 3-4 inches in front of the plate in the dirt. No leap, no hop, no skip, just a push off a few inches in front of the plate.

Do you call that?

JEL · #2 (**permalink**) Wed Sep 17, 2003, 12:56pm

As I see, the foot doesnt leave the ground, I don't call it.

shipwreck · #3 (**permalink**) Wed Sep 17, 2003, 12:57pm

I will make it known to her coach and her about the infraction, and if she continues to pitch this way will call an illegal pitch on her everytime afterwards. Dave

Skahtboi · #4 (**permalink**) Wed Sep 17, 2003, 01:56pm

I concur with Dave!

archer · #5 (**permalink**) Wed Sep 17, 2003, 02:16pm

Are you gonna call it when there is a big divot in front of the rubber? 98% of ball fields are like that. So what do you do then?

Dakota · #6 (**permalink**) Wed Sep 17, 2003, 02:22pm

Quote:

Originally posted by archer
Are you gonna call it when there is a big divot in front of the rubber? 98% of ball fields are like that. So what do you do then?

By rule, the hole only comes into play for the drag of the pivot foot away from the plate, not for the push off.

archer · #7 (**permalink**) Wed Sep 17, 2003, 02:37pm

I want JEL to ump my games. 3 or 4 inches? Please! 12 to 24 inches? Yes call it. What advantage is gained with 3 to 4 inches?

Dakota · #8 (**permalink**) Wed Sep 17, 2003, 02:47pm

Quote:

Originally posted by archer
I want JEL to ump my games. 3 or 4 inches? Please! 12 to 24 inches? Yes call it. What advantage is gained with 3 to 4 inches?

I was looking for some honest dialog (true confessions?) from umpires on whether they call this technical violation. I have never called it, even though I see it fairly often.

However, since you brought up the "no advantage" rubric, I have to ask this... If there is no advantage gained by placing the foot at the very front edge of the plate so that the push off is in front of the plate on the dirt, then there is no disadvantage to moving the foot back on the plate at the start so the push off is from the front edge of the plate, right? Therefore, move it back.

I think I'll go with Dave's suggestion in the future. Warn the first time. Call it thereafter.

I'm still interested in what other umpires actually do with this situation. Call it? Warn & call it? Ignore it?

archer · #9 (**permalink**) Wed Sep 17, 2003, 02:53pm

Then you risk the pitcher getting hurt because of the canyon in front of the rubber. Most girls push off in front of the hole to avoid an injury. The only time I have ever seen what you are talking about called is in LL or a very inexperienced umpire who thinks the rule book is to be adhered to strickly. Those guys have 3 and 4 hour 7 inning games and for the life of them cannot figure out why it takes so long.

Gmoore · #10 (**permalink**) Wed Sep 17, 2003, 03:20pm

Quote:

The only time I have ever seen what you are talking about called is in LL or a very inexperienced umpire who thinks the rule book is to be adhered to strickly. Those guys have 3 and 4 hour 7 inning games and for the life of them cannot figure out why it takes so long. [/B]

A rule is a rule,, this is where we here "home town ump"
or he must have something else to do.

Andy · #11 (**permalink**) Wed Sep 17, 2003, 03:28pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Dakota
I was looking for some honest dialog (true confessions?) from umpires on whether they call this technical violation.

I have seen the technique described on a good number (more than a few, but less than several) of pitchers in my area.

I concur with JEL, I'm not calling it or warning the pitcher. Both feet start on the pitcher's plate and the pivot foot does not leave the ground.

Another reason that I won't call this is because nobody ever complains about it. And no, I don't base my calls on what the coaches and fans are complaining about.

For the issue described, I feel that it would be over-officious to make that call.

CecilOne · #12 (**permalink**) Wed Sep 17, 2003, 03:30pm

If I am conviced that the pitcher is pushing off from other than the plate, I will call it because it is illegal.
If the foot does not move forward from its original position, then it would not seem to be illegal and most likely could not be detected.

MD Longhorn · #13 (**permalink**) Wed Sep 17, 2003, 03:37pm

18-year softball ump here. Never got the memo saying that the rulebook did not have to be adhered to strictly. So, archer, which parts of the rulebook are we now allowed to let slide?

Sarcasm aside --- if the field permits it, call it by the book. Like it was said, if you ever let something go because "they gain no advantage from it", then there's no disadvantage in sticking by the rule.

On the other hand, where the field is in need of some help, I'm not going to cause the girls to twist ankles in order to stay on that rubber. However, in a case like this - it's our job to inspect the field beforehand. If the mound has a canyon (and we've all seen 'em), we should let BOTH coaches know - before we see their pitchers at all - that a little leeway will be given regarding their pitchers feet remaining on the rubber.

Safety first. If it's safe to call it by the book, then call it by the book.

archer · #14 (**permalink**) Wed Sep 17, 2003, 03:38pm

Being an ump Gmoore. You should know that 99% of the people who yell at you from the stands never played a sport and more than likely played in the band. Ill even bet they have some "one time at band camp" stories to tell.

archer · #15 (**permalink**) Wed Sep 17, 2003, 03:46pm

I guess mb, Im from the school advantage disadvantage. In my years of officiating I have found that if it doesnt affect the play and it is not an obious violation. Dont call it. Ex. In football, R1 is holding away from the ball. He is in no way a part of the play and never will be a part of the play. Do you call it? I dont and all the veteran officals I have worked with in the past wouldnt either. Why disrupt the flow of the game because the rule book said holding is a penalty?
No sarcasm taken or intended.