NCAA Obstruction

[teebob21]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Yes, ASA has an exception like the NCAA in removing the protection between the 2 bases where the runner was obstructed and that includes a proper appeal on a base left too soon or missed.

However, that doesn't mean the OBS is ignored or that the base runner has forfeited any right to proceed (in any direction) to a base unimpeded. This exception simply relieves the "between 2 bases" exemption to the OBS rule and allows the umpire to rule the obstructed runner out if, in the umpire's judgement, that runner would not have returned safely to the base left too soon had the OBS not occurred.

I understand the ASA exception and I think I understand A.R. 9.4.3.5. Am I correct in my scenario below?

R1 is on 1B. A fly ball is hit to the outfield, and R1 leaves 1B before the ball is caught. R1 is obstructed by F4 en route to 2B. R1 realizes she has left early and returns towards 1B. The defense completes a live-ball appeal by throwing to F3 before R1 reaches 1B.

NCAA: R1 is out. Full stop.
ASA: If in the judgment of the umpire, R1 would have been out absent the obstruction, R1 is out. Else, R1 may be protected by OBS.

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Edit to add: Is R1 still out if F3 commits the obstruction at 1B while about to receive the thrown ball? (NCAA)

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by teebob21

I understand the ASA exception and I think I understand A.R. 9.4.3.5. Am I correct in my scenario below?

R1 is on 1B. A fly ball is hit to the outfield, and R1 leaves 1B before the ball is caught. R1 is obstructed by F4 en route to 2B. R1 realizes she has left early and returns towards 1B. The defense completes a live-ball appeal by throwing to F3 before R1 reaches 1B.

NCAA: R1 is out. Full stop.
ASA: If in the judgment of the umpire, R1 would have been out absent the obstruction, R1 is out. Else, R1 may be protected by OBS.

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Edit to add: Is R1 still out if F3 commits the obstruction at 1B while about to receive the thrown ball? (NCAA)

I would like to believe the actual NCAA A.R. isn't being drop dead literal and would be similar to ASA's. IMO, there is a huge difference between the result of this play where the OBS happens three steps from the target base as opposed to an OBS fifty-five feet away and I would hope the NCAA would recognize that.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

I would like to believe the actual NCAA A.R. isn't being drop dead literal and would be similar to ASA's...

I would assume that as well, but it is the literal wording that is at issue as potentially being the "sh** storm waiting to happen", right?

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Dakota

I would assume that as well, but it is the literal wording that is at issue as potentially being the "sh** storm waiting to happen", right?

Well, the NCAA permitting the use of runners for target practice is what make me think that this could be the shitstorm you mention.

[teebob21]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

I would like to believe the actual NCAA A.R. isn't being drop dead literal and would be similar to ASA's. IMO, there is a huge difference between the result of this play where the OBS happens three steps from the target base as opposed to an OBS fifty-five feet away and I would hope the NCAA would recognize that.

I got clarification on the AR at our conference clinic today. They are being drop dead literal. The runner that leaves a base before a fly ball is caught gets no protection if she is obstructed before tagging up. Direction of the runner does not matter.

Engage sh**storm...but, the letter of the rule book will back up this call on the likely protest.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by teebob21

I got clarification on the AR at our conference clinic today. They are being drop dead literal. The runner that leaves a base before a fly ball is caught gets no protection if she is obstructed before tagging up. Direction of the runner does not matter.

Engage sh**storm...but, the letter of the rule book will back up this call on the likely protest.

Adjusting your situation:

R1 is on 1B. A fly ball is hit to the outfield, and R1 leaves 1B before the ball is caught. R1 realizes she has left early and returns towards 1B. R1 is obstructed by F4 en route to 1B. The defense completes a live-ball appeal by throwing to F3 before R1 reaches 1B.

NCAA: R1 is out, no matter the judgment???

Lordy, Lordy...

[outathm]

Originally Posted by teebob21

I got clarification on the AR at our conference clinic today. They are being drop dead literal. The runner that leaves a base before a fly ball is caught gets no protection if she is obstructed before tagging up. Direction of the runner does not matter.

Engage sh**storm...but, the letter of the rule book will back up this call on the likely protest.

I have also had this ruling confirmed in a conference meeting. It was explained to me(and the rest of the group) that a runner who has left early is not to be protected by rule.

On the other hand, like so many things that we end up with 5 pages of comments about, how often do we really think this is going to happen during the season.

[Altor]

Originally Posted by outathm

how often do we really think this is going to happen during the season.

It could become a very common play. Think about how many times R1 goes almost to second on a fly ball to left. It's a common tactic in case F7 drops or misplays the ball. Now, NCAA is practically telling F4 that she can tackle R1 on her way back to first.

It's a bad ruling.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Altor

It could become a very common play. Think about how many times R1 goes almost to second on a fly ball to left. It's a common tactic in case F7 drops or misplays the ball. Now, NCAA is practically telling F4 that she can tackle R1 on her way back to first.

It's a bad ruling.

No, that is not a scenario where this ruling would apply. Suggest you reread original as this pertains ONLY to the protection afforded an obstructed runner between the two bases where obstructed when another violation (on that runner) occurs.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

No, that is not a scenario where this ruling would apply. Suggest you reread original as this pertains ONLY to the protection afforded an obstructed runner between the two bases where obstructed when another violation (on that runner) occurs.

Originally Posted by teebob21

I got clarification on the AR at our conference clinic today. They are being drop dead literal. The runner that leaves a base before a fly ball is caught gets no protection if she is obstructed before tagging up. Direction of the runner does not matter.

Engage sh**storm...but, the letter of the rule book will back up this call on the likely protest.

The problem is (perhaps) not the intent of the ruling, but the wording of the ruling.

We all know that a runner is not protected no matter what if she commits a violation, but we all would protect the runner if ITUJ the obstruction prevented the runner who was attempting to return from reaching the base (e.g. obstructed during her return attempt.)

Yet, it is being reported that the NCAA clinics are teaching that the direction of the runner does not matter.

[youngump]

Originally Posted by outathm

I have also had this ruling confirmed in a conference meeting. It was explained to me(and the rest of the group) that a runner who has left early is not to be protected by rule.

On the other hand, like so many things that we end up with 5 pages of comments about, how often do we really think this is going to happen during the season.

Every single time for about 2 games, then the AR will be corrected. If a runner leaving early means that the defense can actively prevent them from returning, then going halfway on a flyball is a thing of the past.
Did nobody ask about this at your conference meeting?

[teebob21]

Originally Posted by youngump

If a runner leaving early means that the defense can actively prevent them from returning, then going halfway on a flyball is a thing of the past.

This is a point I had not previously considered. That is quite an impact on the nature of the game.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by outathm

On the other hand, like so many things that we end up with 5 pages of comments about, how often do we really think this is going to happen during the season.

If this is truly the ruling, and coaches get wind, then ANY time R1 leaves first on a routine fly ball, going halfway, like they are supposed to, coaches should coach my 2nd baseman to go give them a bear hug until the ball can come back in... at least until they fix this ruling.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

If this is truly the ruling, and coaches get wind, then ANY time R1 leaves first on a routine fly ball, going halfway, like they are supposed to, coaches should coach my 2nd baseman to go give them a bear hug until the ball can come back in... at least until they fix this ruling.

And the coach may get really pissed if the umpire ejects F4.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by teebob21

I got clarification on the AR at our conference clinic today. They are being drop dead literal. The runner that leaves a base before a fly ball is caught gets no protection if she is obstructed before tagging up. Direction of the runner does not matter.

Engage sh**storm...but, the letter of the rule book will back up this call on the likely protest.

By rule and A.R (9.4.3.2), the runner is protected from obstruction regardless of the runner's direction and the umpire's judgment is taken into consideration.

Yes, this A.R. contradicts 9.4.3.5. Remember, the OP specifically addresses the exception to the OBS rule that states an obstructed runner cannot be put out between the 2 bases where the obstruction occurred.