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Tue Sep 16, 2003, 12:29pm
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Please don't tell MLB or anyone in Williamsport there is no national body for baseball rules.
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Officiating takes more than OJT. It's not our jobs to invent rulings to fit our personal idea of what should and should not be. 
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Tue Sep 16, 2003, 02:24pm
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Grey, something confused me about the first scenario you describe, so I want to clarify, with a similar situation.
Baker on 1st, Charlie hits a popup to 2B. Baker is about 2/3 of the way to 2nd (not paying attention, thought ther e were 2 outs ... whatever). Charlie has rounded first as the 2B misses the ball, grabs on the bounce, and tags Charlie. By your verbiage, it sounds like the force at 2B is still on, but I don't believe it should be. Or is there something different in the interpretations (and is the ruling different by jurisdiction). Is your ruling the same if Baker strays past 2B and then tries to get back to 1B after Charlie is tagged out (and missed 2B in both directions).
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I was thinking of the immortal words of Socrates, who said, 'I drank what?'” West Houston Mike
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Tue Sep 16, 2003, 03:17pm
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mbcrowder: In the situation you describe, the force is off Baker as soon as Charlie is tagged out. That would apply in all codes, baseball or softball. It is plays involving missed bases where the technicalities get a bit hairy.
What would be different is if Baker runs hard on the popup, misses 2B before Charlie is put out, and then runs to 3B. Charlie would naturally be out when he is tagged. If Baker is called out on appeal at 2B, his out would be considered: (1) A force out in OBR, Fed BB, and NCAA BB; in fact, in NCAA, the out would be considered a force regardless of whether Baker missed 2B before or after the out on Charlie, because Baker was forced when the play began. (2) Not a force out in ASA (and probably Fed SB); in ASA, whenever a following runner is put out, all forces are off all preceding runners no matter what. Of course, in the situation you describe, with no issue of whether a run scores or doesn't score, whether the appeal out at 2B is a force or not doesn't really matter. Both Baker and Charlie are out. But add a runner on 3B and assume one out, and whether the out is a force or not obviously does matter.
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greymule More whiskey—and fresh horses for my men! Roll Tide!
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Tue Sep 16, 2003, 06:34pm
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Speaking ASA
The ASA references for this thread are: Rule 5.5.A Case Play 5.5-3 ASA Test #32 - T
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The bat issue in softball is as much about liability, insurance and litigation as it is about competition, inflated egos and softball.
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