Did she go?

3afan · #1 (**permalink**) Fri Oct 09, 2015, 07:39am

Game I was watching waiting for my game to begin:

2-2 count, batter checks swing, ball gets by catcher, BR ends up on 1st. PU ruled no swing, so he calls runner back to the plate, 3-2 count.

At this point the offensive coach wants the PU to go to his partner, hoping he says "YES she went" so they can keep the runner at 1st.

Question is, should the PU have honored the offensive request to go to his partner on a check swing? He did not, but afterwards the consensus was "Sure, why not?"

BretMan · #2 (**permalink**) Fri Oct 09, 2015, 07:58am

No, only the defense may ask for help on a checked swing.

3afan · #3 (**permalink**) Fri Oct 09, 2015, 08:04am

The NFHS rule book is silent on this specific situation. Didn't check the case book.

3afan · #4 (**permalink**) Sat Oct 10, 2015, 05:09am

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3afan

The NFHS rule book is silent on this specific situation. Didn't check the case book.

same for ASA rule book (per our chapter's rule guru)

EsqUmp · #5 (**permalink**) Sun Oct 11, 2015, 08:51am

Out of curiosity, why didn't the umpire go ON HIS OWN?

Yet another example of not preventing a problem. Those who "think" the know what "preventative officiating" is tend to understand the concept the least.

IRISHMAFIA · #6 (**permalink**) Sun Oct 11, 2015, 06:51pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by EsqUmp

Out of curiosity, why didn't the umpire go ON HIS OWN?

Yet another example of not preventing a problem. Those who "think" the know what "preventative officiating" is tend to understand the concept the least.

Why would he go if he already judged there was no swing? Are you suggesting the PU go every time the batter brings the bat forward?

AtlUmpSteve · #7 (**permalink**) Sun Oct 11, 2015, 09:56pm

The PU should go for help on any "checked" swing ruled a ball, even without being asked, any time the PLATE UMPIRE believes there may be an issue from being unsure; agreed.

The OP never suggested any doubt by the PU. Absent that, no reason to go.

We don't answer prayers; just reasonable requests supported by rule. There's a higher authority (many believe) that answers prayers.

EsqUmp · #8 (**permalink**) Wed Oct 14, 2015, 08:53am

Quote:

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Why would he go if he already judged there was no swing? Are you suggesting the PU go every time the batter brings the bat forward?

That's an asinine conclusion not supported at all by what I said. If there is actual doubt, go for help. Don't wait for a shit storm.

Rich · #9 (**permalink**) Wed Oct 14, 2015, 10:13am

Quote:

Originally Posted by EsqUmp

That's an asinine conclusion not supported at all by what I said. If there is actual doubt, go for help. Don't wait for a shit storm.

A coach asking does not mean there is actual doubt.

IRISHMAFIA · #10 (**permalink**) Wed Oct 14, 2015, 10:15am

Quote:

Originally Posted by EsqUmp

That's an asinine conclusion not supported at all by what I said. If there is actual doubt, go for help. Don't wait for a shit storm.

And where did the OP indicate there was any doubt? For that matter, where did your response indicate "any doubt" as being a condition of your comment?

MD Longhorn · #11 (**permalink**) Wed Oct 14, 2015, 12:10pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by EsqUmp

That's an asinine conclusion not supported at all by what I said. If there is actual doubt, go for help. Don't wait for a shit storm.

Honestly, I read your comment the same way he did.

EsqUmp · #12 (**permalink**) Sat Oct 17, 2015, 07:10pm

So if you have real actual doubt you won't go for help unless asked?

AtlUmpSteve · #13 (**permalink**) Sat Oct 17, 2015, 08:38pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by EsqUmp

So if you have real actual doubt you won't go for help unless asked?

Help me understand your position here, please.

Nothing in this thread suggests even minimal doubt by the umpire. Why do you keep implying there is? A coach wanted a prayer; it was denied. No one else seems to think that the umpire needs to answer that prayer.

Or is this just your apparent need to disagree with anything or anyone (even formerly) you associate with ASA? And/or specifically Mike/IrishMafia. Your continual efforts seem to indicate that.

I believe I speak for those of us that just want to discuss softball umpire officiating, I just want to know if you intend to offer the benefit of your knowledge and experience, or simply snipe at ASA/Mike. I, for one, believe you have plenty to offer, even as a contrarian, but you are losing any credibility with these pointless attacks.

IRISHMAFIA · #14 (**permalink**) Sun Oct 18, 2015, 05:51pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by EsqUmp

So if you have real actual doubt you won't go for help unless asked?

Please cite where I made any statement to that point or even offered a modicum of indication that would lead to your question.

EsqUmp · #15 (**permalink**) Sun Oct 18, 2015, 07:53pm

I was asked if I was suggesting to go for help everytime the batter moved the bat forward. That's an absurd accusation, so I addressed it.

The original fact pattern is moot as to the likelihood of actual doubt, so I addressed it.

I merely bring up the point that umpires think that they can't go on their own and some play this " Mother, May I?" game while a real game is being played and being affected.

Sorry you're reading into it more than I'm addressing, especially when you stated exactly what I was getting at yourself.