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-   -   Did she go? (https://forum.officiating.com/softball/100182-did-she-go.html)

3afan Fri Oct 09, 2015 07:39am

Did she go?
 
Game I was watching waiting for my game to begin:

2-2 count, batter checks swing, ball gets by catcher, BR ends up on 1st. PU ruled no swing, so he calls runner back to the plate, 3-2 count.

At this point the offensive coach wants the PU to go to his partner, hoping he says "YES she went" so they can keep the runner at 1st.

Question is, should the PU have honored the offensive request to go to his partner on a check swing? He did not, but afterwards the consensus was "Sure, why not?"

BretMan Fri Oct 09, 2015 07:58am

No, only the defense may ask for help on a checked swing.

3afan Fri Oct 09, 2015 08:04am

The NFHS rule book is silent on this specific situation. Didn't check the case book.

3afan Sat Oct 10, 2015 05:09am

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3afan (Post 967772)
The NFHS rule book is silent on this specific situation. Didn't check the case book.

same for ASA rule book (per our chapter's rule guru)

EsqUmp Sun Oct 11, 2015 08:51am

Out of curiosity, why didn't the umpire go ON HIS OWN?

Yet another example of not preventing a problem. Those who "think" the know what "preventative officiating" is tend to understand the concept the least.

IRISHMAFIA Sun Oct 11, 2015 06:51pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by EsqUmp (Post 967821)
Out of curiosity, why didn't the umpire go ON HIS OWN?

Yet another example of not preventing a problem. Those who "think" the know what "preventative officiating" is tend to understand the concept the least.

Why would he go if he already judged there was no swing? Are you suggesting the PU go every time the batter brings the bat forward?

AtlUmpSteve Sun Oct 11, 2015 09:56pm

The PU should go for help on any "checked" swing ruled a ball, even without being asked, any time the PLATE UMPIRE believes there may be an issue from being unsure; agreed.

The OP never suggested any doubt by the PU. Absent that, no reason to go.

We don't answer prayers; just reasonable requests supported by rule. There's a higher authority (many believe) that answers prayers.

EsqUmp Wed Oct 14, 2015 08:53am

Quote:

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA (Post 967877)
Why would he go if he already judged there was no swing? Are you suggesting the PU go every time the batter brings the bat forward?

That's an asinine conclusion not supported at all by what I said. If there is actual doubt, go for help. Don't wait for a shit storm.

Rich Wed Oct 14, 2015 10:13am

Quote:

Originally Posted by EsqUmp (Post 967954)
That's an asinine conclusion not supported at all by what I said. If there is actual doubt, go for help. Don't wait for a shit storm.

A coach asking does not mean there is actual doubt.

IRISHMAFIA Wed Oct 14, 2015 10:15am

Quote:

Originally Posted by EsqUmp (Post 967954)
That's an asinine conclusion not supported at all by what I said. If there is actual doubt, go for help. Don't wait for a shit storm.

And where did the OP indicate there was any doubt? For that matter, where did your response indicate "any doubt" as being a condition of your comment?

MD Longhorn Wed Oct 14, 2015 12:10pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by EsqUmp (Post 967954)
That's an asinine conclusion not supported at all by what I said. If there is actual doubt, go for help. Don't wait for a shit storm.

Honestly, I read your comment the same way he did.

EsqUmp Sat Oct 17, 2015 07:10pm

So if you have real actual doubt you won't go for help unless asked?

AtlUmpSteve Sat Oct 17, 2015 08:38pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by EsqUmp (Post 968094)
So if you have real actual doubt you won't go for help unless asked?

Help me understand your position here, please.

Nothing in this thread suggests even minimal doubt by the umpire. Why do you keep implying there is? A coach wanted a prayer; it was denied. No one else seems to think that the umpire needs to answer that prayer.

Or is this just your apparent need to disagree with anything or anyone (even formerly) you associate with ASA? And/or specifically Mike/IrishMafia. Your continual efforts seem to indicate that.

I believe I speak for those of us that just want to discuss softball umpire officiating, I just want to know if you intend to offer the benefit of your knowledge and experience, or simply snipe at ASA/Mike. I, for one, believe you have plenty to offer, even as a contrarian, but you are losing any credibility with these pointless attacks.

IRISHMAFIA Sun Oct 18, 2015 05:51pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by EsqUmp (Post 968094)
So if you have real actual doubt you won't go for help unless asked?

Please cite where I made any statement to that point or even offered a modicum of indication that would lead to your question.

EsqUmp Sun Oct 18, 2015 07:53pm

I was asked if I was suggesting to go for help everytime the batter moved the bat forward. That's an absurd accusation, so I addressed it.

The original fact pattern is moot as to the likelihood of actual doubt, so I addressed it.

I merely bring up the point that umpires think that they can't go on their own and some play this " Mother, May I?" game while a real game is being played and being affected.

Sorry you're reading into it more than I'm addressing, especially when you stated exactly what I was getting at yourself.


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