Goal or No Goal?

[Eastshire]

I was unsure until the last replay. That one cinches is. Good goal. The keeper never controls the ball. Blue knocks the ball away from the keeper as he is reaching for it.

[ref2coach]

With the benefit of stop motion and enlargement, I am going to say it should not have been a goal. The GK's team mate initially dislodged the ball from his possession. Then the GK again got both hands onto the ball at that point the play should have been whistled dead.

With my assessor's hat on I would question the CR on his level of effort, I would have liked to see him sprinting into the top of the PA when the player went wide and all the way to the goal line. Had he done that he would have been in the camera shot somewhere between the top of the PA and the GA.

[Eastshire]

Originally Posted by ref2coach

With the benefit of stop motion and enlargement, I am going to say it should not have been a goal. The GK's team mate initially dislodged the ball from his possession. Then the GK again got both hands onto the ball at that point the play should have been whistled dead.

With my assessor's hat on I would question the CR on his level of effort, I would have liked to see him sprinting into the top of the PA when the player went wide and all the way to the goal line. Had he done that he would have been in the camera shot somewhere between the top of the PA and the GA.

Even if the keeper did somehow get both hands on it, which I don't see at all, why in the world would you stop play at that point? IMO the keeper loses possession without a touch from the opposing team until after the ball is away from the keeper. Beyond that, the CR is at the top of the area looking directly at the keeper during the play in question from no more than 15 yards away.

[ref2coach]

Originally Posted by Eastshire

Even if the keeper did somehow get both hands on it, which I don't see at all, why in the world would you stop play at that point? IMO the keeper loses possession without a touch from the opposing team until after the ball is away from the keeper. Beyond that, the CR is at the top of the area looking directly at the keeper during the play in question from no more than 15 yards away.

With the ability to stop the action during the 18th second, after the team mate is down near the GK legs and the ball can be seen in front of the blue player's left leg, it appears to me that the GK has contacted the ball with both hands. Based on the team name and the view of the matching tents on the sidelines at the beginning of the clip, the appearance of a second game on the adjoining filed, I am guessing that this is a USSF youth tournament. USSF in the ATR 12.16 tells us that the GK is in possession when holding the ball between both hands or between one hand and any other surface. That is the point in time that I believe play should be stopped.

Again regarding the CR's location. He stopped outside the PA in a spot that appears to leave him "straight lined". Had he gone wider and followed the play and blue #10 into the PA, he would have been closer to the play and had the play bracketed between himself and his AR. #7 Blue stepping through, is what contacts the GK hands, arms and causes the GK to loss contact with the ball, #19 then scores the goal. If you search "goal keeper possession" on the USSF askareferee website you will find Jim Allen speaking of even 1 finger on the ball and the ball in contact with the ground, post or person is to be ruled possession.

In real time with only 1 look do I get it right? I hope so but possibly not.

[Eastshire]

Originally Posted by ref2coach

With the ability to stop the action during the 18th second, after the team mate is down near the GK legs and the ball can be seen in front of the blue player's left leg, it appears to me that the GK has contacted the ball with both hands. Based on the team name and the view of the matching tents on the sidelines at the beginning of the clip, the appearance of a second game on the adjoining filed, I am guessing that this is a USSF youth tournament. USSF in the ATR 12.16 tells us that the GK is in possession when holding the ball between both hands or between one hand and any other surface. That is the point in time that I believe play should be stopped.

Again regarding the CR's location. He stopped outside the PA in a spot that appears to leave him "straight lined". Had he gone wider and followed the play and blue #10 into the PA, he would have been closer to the play and had the play bracketed between himself and his AR. #7 Blue stepping through, is what contacts the GK hands, arms and causes the GK to loss contact with the ball, #19 then scores the goal. If you search "goal keeper possession" on the USSF askareferee website you will find Jim Allen speaking of even 1 finger on the ball and the ball in contact with the ground, post or person is to be ruled possession.

In real time with only 1 look do I get it right? I hope so but possibly not.

Why precisely are you stopping play? At no point does blue touch the ball while the keeper has possession. If you stop play just because the keeper has possession, your only possible restart is a drop ball. We don't stop play just because the keeper has possession. Since we don't stop play for no reason, and since the keeper loses possession without blue touching the ball or the keeper, there is no reason to stop play or disallow the goal.

[ref2coach]

Originally Posted by Eastshire

Why precisely are you stopping play? At no point does blue touch the ball while the keeper has possession. If you stop play just because the keeper has possession, your only possible restart is a drop ball. We don't stop play just because the keeper has possession. Since we don't stop play for no reason, and since the keeper loses possession without blue touching the ball or the keeper, there is no reason to stop play or disallow the goal.

When may a GK be legally challenged?

Once the GK got one or both hands on the ball he now has possession.

Blue #7's foot contacting the GK left arm when he has one or both hands on the ball is a foul.

Even if you do not see the opponent contacting the GK you still have ATR 12.16 "An opponent who attempts to challenge for a ball in the possession of the goalkeeper may be considered to have committed a direct free kick foul."

Once you see the keeper contact the ball with his hand or hands after the touch by his team mate you now have possession and activity by opponents #7 and/or #19 are illegal challenges to the GK in possession.

The restart will be a DFK for the GK's team.

[Eastshire]

At what point does the keeper hold or trap the ball? There is no point when the ball stops the movement started by the keepers teammate so it is clear that the keeper has failed to hold or trap it so he cannot according to the ATR have possession.

Even failing that, you cannot, as you suggest, stop play because the keeper establishes control. You have to actually have the opponent challenge the keeper to have an offense. If you stopped play when you feel the keeper established control the only possible restart is a drop ball.

You're bending the rules to bail out the defender and the keeper.