BEST article I've read

[Tim C]

Peter, Peter, Peter . . .

As a politician you could get elected.

Take a few comments out of context to prove your points.

While you are my friend I still get confused by your need to lower the bar of umpiring. I know, you just want to get rid of "Big Dogs."

I am sure that your thinking is developed by being a member of a union umpire group.

You have hit it very clear that the listserve group you mention tells stories about rats. But it would be more of a benefit if you kept things at least in context.

There are people that dislike Carl . . . your post may have lead people to believe that I had posted one of the negetive thoughts about CC . . . I think you need to research deeper before you shoot off your mouth (err, fingers).

Your independant thinking should be protected, your views shared with all but we also would like to see your keep the truth at the forefront of your arguements.

Tee

BTW, Carl has missed in his "history" lesson concerning where the term "Rat" comes from. It was first used at the COLLEGE level to talk of "star" high school players that got overmatched at the college level and, in turn, argued with umpires since "in high school I was never called out of strikes, Blue."

Rats is rats,
professional or non-professional,
if you coach (or manage) you are a rat,
and you are always looking to smell the cheese.

T

[Carl Childress]

Originally posted by Tim C
BTW, Carl has missed in his "history" lesson concerning where the term "Rat" comes from. It was first used at the COLLEGE level to talk of "star" high school players that got overmatched at the college level and, in turn, argued with umpires since "in high school I was never called out of strikes, Blue."T

Tee, pardon me if I ask for your source on this assertion.

[Tim C]

I was informed of the term "Rat" sometime between 1982 and 1986.

When I attended Brinkman in '82 the term was not used at the school.

When I came back in '86 (for only the last three weeks, so I could have missed references during the first three weeks) the term was in every day use.

HOWEVER, in 1983 or '84 the term was in full use in the NORPAC.

I actually believe that the term was coined in Texas.

That is my best memory of the situation.

It was probably used in Little League far before that (that was meant to be humorous).

Tee

[David Emerling]

Originally posted by Tim C
I was informed of the term "Rat" sometime between 1982 and 1986.

When I attended Brinkman in '82 the term was not used at the school.

When I came back in '86 (for only the last three weeks, so I could have missed references during the first three weeks) the term was in every day use.

HOWEVER, in 1983 or '84 the term was in full use in the NORPAC.

I actually believe that the term was coined in Texas.

That is my best memory of the situation.

It was probably used in Little League far before that (that was meant to be humorous).

Tee

Despite your attempt to give us a history lesson on the origin of the word "rat", YOU are not using it in the context that you've explained, are you? So what's the point?

It's a word that is bantered about by umpires when referring to particularly odious coaches. It's more or less a tongue-in-cheek type of word. Coaches have similar words for dipsh*t umpires, of which there is no more a shortage than rat coaches, by the way.

But not for you! You are dead serious when you use this word. Your predisposition to classify all coaches as rats, until they prove otherwise (and I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt that a coach could prove to you that he is *not* a rat - although there is no indication that is possible.), reveals an irrational bias that certainly must manifest itself in some manner that makes you somewhat less of an umpire than you are capable of. And, my guess is that you're an outstanding umpire. So I can only imagine what heights you would achieve if you could possibly shirk this extreme prejudice.

Have you ever considered the possibility that your success as an umpire is DESPITE your attitude toward coaches, not BECAUSE of it?

David Emerling
Memphis, TN

[Tim C]

Gee Dave, since I know you don't have a degree in psychology it must mean that you stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

BTW, David is a coach that umpires, not vice versa.

I'll stick with my original thought Dave, all coaches are rats.

But thanks for all the advice.

Tee

[Tim C]

Carl:

I did not mean to evade any of your questions concerning my feelings towards rats.

It is just that with someone making the arbitrary, capricious and stupid decision to move a clearly "baseball" driven discussion to the "General" tab means I don't check in and finish some of the thoughts I had.

Since this is my last post under the "General" tab I will try to make my feelings clear.

I have never, nor will I ever, work a small diamond game. I am sure that there are some fine people that work with children and teach values, sportsmanship and fair play.

It just happens, I guess, that they never caoch in the Little League World series so we never seen them.

My distaste for rats comes from 35 years of being exposed to people who manipulate. Not one personal comment from a coach is made without them trying to accomplish a goal. If, heaven forbid, I was a coach I would do the same thing.

You asked about my comments about King Rat:

"Gosh, Tee: There is no issue. We like him, you hate him. Would you be interested in debating him on this topic?"

Carl, why would I want to talk with any rat if I am not required to . . . if that makes me a mental case (see "the rat that thinks he umpires" post -- my name for emerling) then so be it.

I think of it as understanding the species.

BTW, there is no need for you to answer this post in this theater as I will not be opening the "General" tab again.

Tee