Helping the runner?

[Suudy]

I know we've had this discussion before (especially regarding the Bush Push), but yesterday in the Seahawks/Giants game I saw what could be argued as helping the running.

RB Andre Williams rushes for a 3-yard touchdown

What do you think?

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by Suudy

I know we've had this discussion before (especially regarding the Bush Push), but yesterday in the Seahawks/Giants game I saw what could be argued as helping the running.

RB Andre Williams rushes for a 3-yard touchdown

What do you think?

I think the amount of force transmitted by the 2 teammates who appeared to pull him at different points was insignificant in aiding his progress. No foul.

[JRutledge]

It looks like a classic HTR. The lineman pulls the runner into the EZ.

Peace

[MD Longhorn]

I think I flag the 2nd one.

[Robert Goodman]

Then let's analyze them 1 at a time.

#65 puts his hand on the runner's back, maybe grabs his shirt, but look at the resulting action. If anything, deflecting the runner in the direction he was appearing to would have pulled him down, and the runner winds up moving forward into contact with him in a way that negates whatever deflection the hand on the back might've produced.

Then #55 appears to pull the runner as #55 goes down himself. It looked like he was trying to steady himself rather than impart momentum to the ballcarrier. The ballcarrier's twisting motion in that direction was caused by the tackler, and if anything #55 would've aided the tackler rather than the runner.

If the contacts had been with an opponent rather than a teammate, would you have called illegal use of hands? I think you have to apply the same standard of the effect the contact has.

[Sturno]

Originally Posted by Robert Goodman

Then let's analyze them 1 at a time.

#65 puts his hand on the runner's back, maybe grabs his shirt, but look at the resulting action. If anything, deflecting the runner in the direction he was appearing to would have pulled him down, and the runner winds up moving forward into contact with him in a way that negates whatever deflection the hand on the back might've produced.

Then #55 appears to pull the runner as #55 goes down himself. It looked like he was trying to steady himself rather than impart momentum to the ballcarrier. The ballcarrier's twisting motion in that direction was caused by the tackler, and if anything #55 would've aided the tackler rather than the runner.

If the contacts had been with an opponent rather than a teammate, would you have called illegal use of hands? I think you have to apply the same standard of the effect the contact has.

If that same contact was with a defender, it would be holding...as he essentially tackled him and pulled him down, momentum of the runner or not...no different if he was on the O-line or downfield in the EZ.

#2 is text book HTR...which is never called in the NFL anyway. If he doesn't pull him towards goal line, the defender may have him held up on the 1.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Robert Goodman

If the contacts had been with an opponent rather than a teammate, would you have called illegal use of hands? I think you have to apply the same standard of the effect the contact has.

Honestly, the 1st one would be nothing but the 2nd would absolutely be a hold. He pulls him, changes his direction and then kind of throws him. It wouldn't be borderline even.

Not sure I completely agree with your assertion that the standards are the same ... but if they were, then the 2nd is definitely illegal.

[Cliffdweller]

Wow! Really? I don't see anything wrong here and after slowing it down and watching over a couple of times, I don't think #44 even knew he had his own players jersey.

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by Sturno

If that same contact was with a defender, it would be holding...as he essentially tackled him and pulled him down, momentum of the runner or not.

You think that grip produced that direction change? At the end of it, his shirt is still tucked in!

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Cliffdweller

Wow! Really? I don't see anything wrong here and after slowing it down and watching over a couple of times, I don't think #44 even knew he had his own players jersey.

Is that at all a concern?

[Sturno]

That's why I have HTR...he knew what he was doing pulling him towards the GL and did it on purpose, and no I didn't need to ask him.

[HLin NC]

I don't think #44 even knew he had his own players jersey.

Sometimes they don't know they blocked in the back or chop blocked either.
I'd venture to guess he knew.