False Start OR Illegal Shift?

[Adam]

I've got illegal shift.

[Ref1973]

Originally Posted by Adam

I've got illegal shift.

Ditto

[Robert Goodman]

You could as easily call it illegal motion as illegal shift. Any preference as to which violation you'd rather signal?

[BktBallRef]

It's not illegal motion. Illegal motion occurs when one player in motion does not meet the requirements in 7-2-7.

it's not a false start as players are not simulated action at the snap. Linemen go up at the snap. They don't go down into a 3 or 4 point stance.

It's an illegal shift, a violation of 7-2-8.

[Sturno]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

It's not illegal motion. Illegal motion occurs when one player in motion does not meet the requirements in 7-2-7.

it's not a false start as players are not simulated action at the snap. Linemen go up at the snap. They don't go down into a 3 or 4 point stance.

It's an illegal shift, a violation of 7-2-8.

Maybe he's got one bad elbow....?

[tjones1]

Agree, I've got an illegal shift.

2.39 Situation

[bob jenkins]

so, asking as a fan, what difference does it make?

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

It's not illegal motion. Illegal motion occurs when one player in motion does not meet the requirements in 7-2-7.

It says, "Only one A player may be in motion at the snap," so if more than 1 player is in motion, doesn't that too violate its terms?

It's an illegal shift, a violation of 7-2-8.

Well, that too. You can call one or the other.

Another reason you can prove logically that it can't be a false start (assuming no quick or jerky motion) is that that would have to be whistled before the snap -- and how can you know it won't be a legal shift, or that there won't be a time out called (or some other action intervene that would prevent play), before the ball is snapped?

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by Robert Goodman

It says, "Only one A player may be in motion at the snap," so if more than 1 player is in motion, doesn't that too violate its terms?

No. 7-2-7 applies to motion. More than one player moving is NOT motion.

ONE player is moving, after all 11 players are set, is MOTION.

TWO or more players moving at ANY time is a SHIFT, not motion.

I don't know how to make it any more simpler than that.

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

No. 7-2-7 applies to motion. More than one player moving is NOT motion.

ONE player is moving, after all 11 players are set, is MOTION.

TWO or more players moving at ANY time is a SHIFT, not motion.

I don't know how to make it any more simpler than that.

"In motion" is not a technical term in Fed. It refers to movement, period. You can look in vain for a definition of "in motion" in that rule book; in fact, the only occurrences of that phrase are in 7-2-7, which is not a definition. It just says team A can't have more than one player moving at the snap, and even then there are certain conditions on the movement allowed. So there are various ways to violate 7-2-7, the simplest of which is to violate its 1st clause, namely by having more than 1 player moving at the snap.

Having 2 or more players moving is a shift, but you can't deny that it is also motion, because the ordinary meaning of the word is in use there. Otherwise you could have players shift without moving, which would be ridiculous.