NFHS: wrong type of free kick

[ump33]

Originally Posted by Bob M.

REPLY: I'm glad you brought up the most egregiously mis-worded rule in the Federation rule book (2-24-9): "When the ball is loose following an illegal kick, it is treated as a fumble." If you don't believe it, apply it to these plays:

(1) K's punt is rolling at R's 5. R12, sensing that it will be downed by K, kicks the ball which rolls into his end zone. K10 jumps on the loose ball.

(2) A's forward pass to A88 is low. B12 sticks his foot out and kicks the low pass. It lands on the ground where B5 recovers it.

Each play included an illegal kick. Treat the resulting loose ball as a fumble and see what you come up with.

“The most egregiously mis-worded rule in the Federation rule book 2-24-9” … I would say the same about 10-5-5d … The basic spot is the succeeding spot when the final result is a touchback. But that is a different story.

If every situation was covered by rule, no telling how large the Rule Book would be. Often times we as officials must apply several rules to arrive at the correct ruling / interpretation. 2-24-9 is one of those.

Because 2-24-9 states “When the ball is loose following an illegal kick, it is treated as a fumble”, some are trying to allow the Illegal Kick to change the status of the ball. Fortunately, we have rules in place that prohibit this from happening.

In the given play examples:

(1) K's punt is rolling at R's 5. R12, sensing that it will be downed by K, kicks the ball which rolls into his end zone. K10 jumps on the loose ball.

Ruling … Touchback – Why - Because 2-24-2 tells us “A kick ends when a player gains possession or when the ball becomes dead while not in player possession.” How many times do we say “a kick is a kick, is a kick …

(2) A's forward pass to A88 is low. B12 sticks his foot out and kicks the low pass. It lands on the ground where B5 recovers it.

Ruling … Incomplete Pass – Why – Because 2-31-4 tells us “A forward pass ends when it is caught, touches the ground or is out of bounds” and 2-31-6 tells us “A backward pass ends when it is caught or recovered or is out of bounds.

Perhaps 2-24-9 would be better suited if it stated that an illegal kick does not change the status of the ball.

Bob M ... I did not mean to "walk on your previous post." You got it in while I was typing. - ump33

[Bob M.]

Originally Posted by ump33

...Perhaps 2-24-9 would be better suited if it stated that an illegal kick does not change the status of the ball.

REPLY: That's precisely what I proposed to the Rules Committee, but they didn't accept it.

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by ump33

[COLOR="Blue"]Perhaps 2-24-9 would be better suited if it stated that an illegal kick does not change the status of the ball.

It would be better in that it wouldn't do damage the way it threatens to now, but such a statement would also be superfluous.

I see Fed's convoluted definings on "legal kicks" goes back to at least 1960, so it's not as recent as I'd imagined. I think it'd be a lot simpler to define "kick" as NCAA long did, requiring but not exhausting situations of "kicking" of the ball, then lay out in the substantive rules (not Rule 2) the conditions under which kicks or certain types of kick are illegal or required.

Pretty easy, actually:

Rule 2:
"Kicking the ball is intentionally striking it with a part of the foot other than the heel, or with the shin."
"A kick is a place kick, drop kick, or punt."
"A punt is the act of kicking the ball by blah...."
Status of the ball is covered generally by loose ball definition such that the word indicates both the act and the type of loose ball it produces. I have doubts offhand that the book saves repetition by defining "scrimmage kick" and "free kick".

Other Rules:
"A live ball must not be kicked other than as a kick. Penalty...."
"A kick must not be made while [or following...].... Penalty...."
"When the ball is ready for play by free kick, a player of K must put the ball in play by making a kick...."