Scrimmage Kick/penalty enforcement

[Twag]

During a pregame this question was posed to our crew. We've been bantering back and forth since last Friday.

What’s the answer:

K punts from their 45. There is first touching by K at K’s 48. The ball bounces behind the neutral zone and K picks it up and advances it for a touchdown. Prior to the touchdown, R commits a facemask at R’s 5. Is it a touchdown? Where is the penalty enforced from?

Half of us are saying it should be R's ball at the 48 because K had first touching beyond the neutral zone. The other half say, any ball recovered behind the neutral zone regardless of touching can be advanced, touchdown and penalty enforced on PAT or KO.

Rule 6-2-2, 3, 4 talks about catch and recover. 6-2-5,6 talk about first touching. I've done my research and am still confused. Can anyone put this in everyday english for me so i can understand.

[HLin NC]

OOps,

[maven]

So let's set aside the possibility that K's touch was in the expanded neutral zone and thus disregarded by rule.

The easiest way to process this play is to focus on first touching and the conditions under which R loses the right to take the ball at the spot of first touching. There are 2:

1. R fouls after touching the kick, or
2. The penalty for any foul committed during the down is accepted. 6-2-5

(1) does not apply here, since R never touched the kick.

That leaves (2). Since R fouled, K has the option. If K declines the penalty, then (2) would not apply, and R would get the ball at the spot of first touching.

If K accepts the penalty, then first touching is nullified. Thus we have a scoring play by K with a live-ball foul by R. By 8-2-2, the score counts, and K has the option to take the penalty for R's foul on the try or the subsequent kickoff.

So the "other half" of you have the right ruling, but not the right reasoning. Make sure you know when the right to take the ball at the spot of first touching lapses.

[Twag]

Thanks

[Twag]

Maven,

Just so I'm clear on all situations. I'd like to change the scenario and see if the result is the same.

If K kicks from the 45 and K touchs at the 49 (beyond the expanded neutral zone , then K recovers the kick behind the neutral zone and scores a TD without R committing a foul. Is it a TD or does R get the ball at first touching (49)

I'm really trying to determine if K can advance the ball regardless of where first touching occured as long as the ball is recovered behind the LOS

[maven]

Here are some basic principles for kick plays:

1. K may always recover a scrimmage kick, though they might be liable for KCI.
2. K may advance any scrimmage kick they recover behind the NZ (and only those).
3. If R touches the kick beyond the NZ, whoever possesses the ball at the end of the down will get a new series.

Now, assuming that when K touches the kick beyond the ENZ it isn't KCI, that will be first touching.

When K recovers the kick behind the NZ, they may advance. If they advance beyond the LTG, the result of the play is a first down. If they score, the result of the play is a TD.

But in this play, nothing has happened to cancel R's right to take the ball at the spot of first touching. R did not foul and never touched the kick, so obviously they didn't foul after touching the kick. And with no fouls, there can be no accepted penalty.

So it will be R's ball, 1/10 at the spot of first touching.

Make sure your BJ has a bag on that spot!

[Twag]

Thanks for taking the time to explain. Rule 6-2 is a lot clearer now

[maven]

Originally Posted by Twag

Thanks for taking the time to explain. Rule 6-2 is a lot clearer now

People get confused by first touching because it's not a foul. But enforcement is in some ways similar to a foul.

"Game situations which produce results somewhat similar to penalties, but which are not classified as fouls are: disqualification of a player, first touching of a kick by K and forfeiture of a game." 2-16-6

As I've pointed out, the key to enforcing first touching is knowing when R loses the right to take the ball at the spot of first touching.