What if???

Scooby · #1 (**permalink**) Fri Sep 27, 2013, 12:31am

My football crew met up with another crew tonight, at a local watering hole, and they said that they had this play. B55 encroachment and the Line Judge threw a flag, but did not shut down the play, during the play A10 blocked in the back. How is this enforced? Do you ignore the block in the back since the play should not have been run? Is there something in the rule book that give direction on this play?

JRutledge · #2 (**permalink**) Fri Sep 27, 2013, 12:37am

Slap the LJ upside the head first of all.

Not sure how you can do anything with an encroachment when the LJ never shut the play down. That would kill the play. And I do not consider a BIB a safety foul, so it is not like you have to stick with that call. Bottom line, slap the LJ upside the head or get another one.

Peace

Scooby · #3 (**permalink**) Fri Sep 27, 2013, 01:55am

Is there rule support as how to officiate this play? Or is it just up to the Referee? I would be leaning towards enforcing both, because the play did run and both fouls did occur.

KWH · #4 (**permalink**) Fri Sep 27, 2013, 03:10am

Encroachment is ALWAYS a dead ball foul and ALWAYS prevents the ball from ever becoming live.
It is not possible to enforce a Dead Ball BIB foul, since, technically, it did not occur.

Therefore, absent of a Personal Foul, enforce the encroachment and move on.

The Rules Book support you are looking for simply does not exist!
The Line Judge made an officiating error. Now you are suggesting penalizing a team due to an officials inability to understand a BASIC rule. Their would never be Rules Book support for such a suggestion.

JRutledge · #5 (**permalink**) Fri Sep 27, 2013, 05:09am

The lesson is know when to stop the play. Like KWH says, you cannot have both fouls if one kills the play. A BIB would not be relevant if the play was already dead and if the contact was not a personal foul. Otherwise I would not even think about the BIB. The line judge screwed up, plain and simple. He has to learn from this and move on.

Peace

HLin NC · #6 (**permalink**) Fri Sep 27, 2013, 05:42am

Agreed, and make him go with the R to explain why the BIB isn't being enforced and why he didn't blow it dead.

It happens. I assume this was a sub-varsity level game since "tonight" = Thursday? Better to learn there than Friday.

Adam · #7 (**permalink**) Fri Sep 27, 2013, 08:09am

Quote:

Originally Posted by HLin NC

Agreed, and make him go with the R to explain why the BIB isn't being enforced and why he didn't blow it dead.

It happens. I assume this was a sub-varsity level game since "tonight" = Thursday? Better to learn there than Friday.

He said they met tonight, not that the play was tonight.

maven · #8 (**permalink**) Fri Sep 27, 2013, 08:32am

There is rule support for this. Encroachment makes the ball dead. The players moved around some during a dead ball, and there was some contact that would have been a foul had the ball been live. But since it wasn't blocking by rule, which takes place only during a live ball, it couldn't be illegal blocking.

Since the ball is dead, only dead-ball fouls such as illegal personal contact are still on the table. So the crew actually had a choice: pass on the IBB or rule it a DB PF for unnecessary roughness, depending on the severity of the contact.

Given that the crew screwed up by not clearly signaling that the ball was dead, I'd have trouble going with option 2.

Altor · #9 (**permalink**) Fri Sep 27, 2013, 08:56am

This sounds like the opposite of an inadvertent whistle, but I think you handle it very similarly.

Take ownership of the mistake. Explain the mistake to the coach(es). Play ball. After the game, we know who's buying.

bisonlj · #10 (**permalink**) Fri Sep 27, 2013, 09:12am

My son was playing 3rd/4th grade football. L had a flag at the snap, play developed and runner scored a 45-yard TD. L reports his foul to R, and I could see a look of annoyance on his face.

L reported offsides (sic) on the defense.

R did something not supported by rule but I was OK with it under the circumstances. He indicated the penalty was declined.

whitehat · #11 (**permalink**) Fri Sep 27, 2013, 10:33am

Another option: After smacking the LJ...simply eat it, explain what happened to coaches and consider "offsetting" the fouls and replay...

jTheUmp · #12 (**permalink**) Fri Sep 27, 2013, 03:59pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by whitehat

Another option: After smacking the LJ...simply eat it, explain what happened to coaches and consider "offsetting" the fouls and replay...

An option, but not one that's supported by rule.

With that said, my handling of this situation would be very much dependent on the level of play/experience of the L.

Varsity game: Enforce it as JRutledge and KWH said.

3rd grade game with a brand-new L... might just go with a do-over under the "spirit of the game" philosophy, after explaining it to both coaches.

But, if there's any doubt at all, enforce it by the book. You'll never get in trouble enforcing it by the book.

KWH · #13 (**permalink**) Fri Sep 27, 2013, 04:11pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by whitehat

Another option: After smacking the LJ...simply eat it, explain what happened to coaches and consider "offsetting" the fouls and replay...

Except for these issues:
2013 NFHS Rules Book - Rules 10-2-1a, b, and c
Which all state ONLY LIVE BALL FOULS CAN BE OFFSET

Since the only actual foul that occurred was a dead ball foul for Encroachment it would be difficult to offset anything.

But, as they say in Kentucky, Never let the Rules Book get in the way of a good ball game.

Again, nothing occurred on this play other than the L screwed the pooch, get over it, admit your error to the coaches, and move on!!!

Why some find it the necessity to fabricate new rules to cover their ass is beyond me...