NFHS question

[JasonLJ]

In a game Friday night, the R had roughing the passer on Team B, but the pass was tipped behind the line (screen pass) also by Team B. Team B wanted the roughing taken away because the ball was tipped. The R made the initial call, talked to the Team B coach, was going to wave it off then decided to still enforce it. looked like a clown show. My question is does a tipped ball cancel out roughing the passer?

[bigjohn]

No.

[RadioBlue]

Originally Posted by JasonLJ

In a game Friday night, the R had roughing the passer on Team B, but the pass was tipped behind the line (screen pass) also by Team B. Team B wanted the roughing taken away because the ball was tipped. The R made the initial call, talked to the Team B coach, was going to wave it off then decided to still enforce it. looked like a clown show. My question is does a tipped ball cancel out roughing the passer?

Does the pass being tipped make the passer no longer a passer? No. He's still a passer (as long has he's behind the neutral zone). Sounds like Team B is confusing the fact that a tipped pass affects PI and not RTP.

[JasonLJ]

The kicker is one official (Who is also a WH but was head linesman this game) was trying to tell the WH that he threw the ball so he no longer is a passer. I was amazed that he said that.

And I agree Radio, this wasn't PI, it was roughing.

[HLin NC]

Rule: 2-32-11
A passer is a player who throws a legal forward pass. He continues to be a passer until the legal forward pass ends or until he moves to participate in the play.

[maven]

Originally Posted by HLin NC

Rule: 2-32-11
A passer is a player who throws a legal forward pass. He continues to be a passer until the legal forward pass ends or until he moves to participate in the play.

Well that explains how Jason's H came to the conclusion he did: he misinterpreted this definition as saying that the passer is such until the passing ends.

[JasonLJ]

Originally Posted by maven

Well that explains how Jason's H came to the conclusion he did: he misinterpreted this definition as saying that the passer is such until the passing ends.

I still had it as roughing, same as the WH. It was when the other official came in and said that the ball was tipped so roughing is no longer in question is when any doubt crept in. I was sure we enforced it correctly, just wanted some feedback.

[maven]

Originally Posted by JasonLJ

I still had it as roughing, same as the WH. It was when the other official came in and said that the ball was tipped so roughing is no longer in question is when any doubt crept in. I was sure we enforced it correctly, just wanted some feedback.

That's fine, and I'm glad to know you handled it correctly.

I was simply commenting on this other official: when telling someone he's wrong, I always try to start with a win for him. For instance: "You know, Bob, you're right: when B tips the ball, you can't have PI. But I don't think that provision applies to RTP. The passer is still protected."

I was thinking something similar about his concern that the passer was no longer a passer after the ball was released. "Bob, you're right, he does cease to be a passer at some point, but I think he has until the pass ends."

[JasonLJ]

Originally Posted by maven

That's fine, and I'm glad to know you handled it correctly.

I was simply commenting on this other official: when telling someone he's wrong, I always try to start with a win for him. For instance: "You know, Bob, you're right: when B tips the ball, you can't have PI. But I don't think that provision applies to RTP. The passer is still protected."

I was thinking something similar about his concern that the passer was no longer a passer after the ball was released. "Bob, you're right, he does cease to be a passer at some point, but I think he has until the pass ends."

Good idea. Thanks.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by maven

That's fine, and I'm glad to know you handled it correctly.

I was simply commenting on this other official: when telling someone he's wrong, I always try to start with a win for him. For instance: "You know, Bob, you're right: when B tips the ball, you can't have PI. But I don't think that provision applies to RTP. The passer is still protected."

I was thinking something similar about his concern that the passer was no longer a passer after the ball was released. "Bob, you're right, he does cease to be a passer at some point, but I think he has until the pass ends."

Maybe he was thinking the pass ends when the ball is tipped?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Adam

Maybe he was thinking the pass ends when the ball is tipped?

That is what I was thinking. That is going to be a longer discussion to change that thinking in that moment.

Peace

[tjones1]

Was this a Coach-Referee conference?

[JasonLJ]

Originally Posted by tjones1

Was this a Coach-Referee conference?

It was.

[maven]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

That is what I was thinking. That is going to be a longer discussion to change that thinking in that moment.

Peace

Not much longer: "It is still a forward pass until it is caught or becomes dead by rule."

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by maven

Not much longer: "It is still a forward pass until it is caught or becomes dead by rule."

That is if they accept that comment. There are people all the time that insist on things being in a definition and clearly are wrong. So I agree in a perfect world it should click in their mind that is true, but some people are not aware of some basic definitions they will argue points they cannot prove without a rulebook present. And unless you are in Ohio that is not going to happen.

Peace