Safety

[Refsmitty]

Sometimes senior association officials confuse... At a meeting - director asks if anyone has any weird plays they want to discuss. A fellow says...

After a free kick but K1 the ball dies at the 1/2 yard line... R1 is standing in the end zone, reaches out to pick the ball up, picks it up and then goes to a knee in the end zone - he called it a safety.

They told him he screwed it up and it is a touch back. The way I see it is the force of K did not put the ball into the EZ, R did...

What do you call?

[maven]

It sounds as if the R player gained possession in the field of play, and the momentum exception does not apply since he was already in the EZ.

If that's right, then the kick ends when R gains possession — no TB.

R has forced the ball across the GL, where it subsequently became dead. Since the momentum exception does not apply, it's a safety.

You're right.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Refsmitty

Sometimes senior association officials confuse... At a meeting - director asks if anyone has any weird plays they want to discuss. A fellow says...

After a free kick but K1 the ball dies at the 1/2 yard line... R1 is standing in the end zone, reaches out to pick the ball up, picks it up and then goes to a knee in the end zone - he called it a safety.

They told him he screwed it up and it is a touch back. The way I see it is the force of K did not put the ball into the EZ, R did...

What do you call?

It died at the 1/2 yard line? Kill it and give it to R there.

[Canned Heat]

Agreed that it could've been killed if it sat there for any time at all. If it JUST was dying and the kid grabs it like he's going to take off with it from out of the EZ and then pulls it back into the EZ and kneels, it's a safety if he takes it back in and put it there.

I cannot envision a way where this would've been a TB.

Sounds like maybe both player and official got caught in no man's land there...tough one.

[Adam]

Are you sure the ball wasn't at the 1/2 yard line when his knee went down?

[Refsmitty]

The explanation to me was that he bent over, picked the ball up, and knelt in the EZ

[maven]

Originally Posted by Rich

It died at the 1/2 yard line? Kill it and give it to R there.

That's a better option for game management, even if not completely following the letter of 4-2-2e(2).

If the question, however, is "TB or safety?" then I'll go with safety.

[maven]

Originally Posted by Refsmitty

The explanation to me was that he bent over, picked the ball up, and knelt in the EZ

Adam's question was rhetorical: he's suggesting that the covering official should RULE that the ball was on the 1/2 YL when the knee went down.

This would be an alternative to Rich's finesse, and a way to give the ball to R without ruling a safety, despite their doing something dumb.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by maven

Adam's question was rhetorical: he's suggesting that the covering official should RULE that the ball was on the 1/2 YL when the knee went down.

This would be an alternative to Rich's finesse, and a way to give the ball to R without ruling a safety, despite their doing something dumb.

"Coach, we either have the ball at the half yard line, or it's a safety. I gave you the benefit of the doubt."

[Refsmitty]

Ahhhh

[Rich]

Originally Posted by maven

That's a better option for game management, even if not completely following the letter of 4-2-2e(2).

If the question, however, is "TB or safety?" then I'll go with safety.

It's not even following the spirit of the rule. I was being a bit facetious, I'll admit. It's a free kick -- I gotta let it live since K can recover it, even if it's laying there not moving -- I'm not blowing it dead until both teams show me that neither is trying to recover it.

It can't be a touchback unless the kick put it across the goal line. Doesn't sound like that is even in the ballpark.

[Robert Goodman]

What would be the difference if the loose ball was a fumble? A player's got to know that if he takes a ball back across his own goal line & kills it there, that's a safety.

[Forksref]

If the ball was possessed in the field of play (end of kick) and then taken into the EZ and downed, then it is a safety. If the ball remained in the field of play while possessed and the knee went down in the EZ, you go with where the ball was at that moment and you have R's ball at the 1/2 yd line. The only way it could be a TB is if the kick had not ended and it went into the EZ. A likely scenario for a TB is if the ball was still live and made its way into the EZ either touched or untouched and still had not been possessed. I've had that on punts before.

[maven]

Originally Posted by Rich

I was being a bit facetious, I'll admit.

So, now that you're a muckety-muck admin, you can't be bothered to use smiley's? I guess life is short...