Trick extra point

[bkdow]

I believe we've discussed this here before but couldn't remember the outcome. I'm white hat in a JV game. The coach tells me about a trick extra point right before it happens.

The holder acts like he's kneeling but his knee is about 2 inches off the ground. Takes the snap and does a modified statue of liberty play and they score 2 on a sweep.

Something strikes me like the 'hey coach I need a new ball' trickery play. Thoughts? Would you kill it or let it go?

[voiceoflg]

Like this from 1999?

Link

[bkdow]

We are in NFHS rules

[maven]

The holder may start on his knee during a try: this trickery is needless. He must rise from his knee to pass (forward or backward), run, or hand the ball off. Starting with his knee 1 inch off the ground will not excuse him from needing to rise before running or passing.

If he does not rise, I will probably rule the ball dead according to 4-2-2a Exception.

[HLin NC]

The holder may start on his knee during a try: this trickery is needless. He must rise from his knee to pass (forward or backward), run, or hand the ball off. Starting with his knee 1 inch off the ground will not excuse him from needing to rise before running or passing.

Then you are making up your own rule. Some deception is a part of football- no different than a fake handoff, pump fake, fake spike, faking a blitz.

[bkdow]

After research, the casebook clearly defines this as legal if he rises up from the ground.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by bkdow

After research, the casebook clearly defines this as legal if he rises up from the ground.

It's legal whether he rises or not.

He is not required to put his knee on the ground. If his knee is off the ground, he can legally hand the ball off or pass it without standing.

The wrong ball play is deceiving the defense into believing there's a problem and the ball isn't going to be snapped. That's why it's illegal. This play is a legal deception AFTER the ball is snapped. The two plays are not the same at all.

[bkdow]

So, you would allow the holder to throw a pass with his knee on the ground? At the time he has his knee on the ground and does something besides be a holder, I'm killing the play and ruling him down.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by bkdow

So, you would allow the holder to throw a pass with his knee on the ground? At the time he has his knee on the ground and does something besides be a holder, I'm killing the play and ruling him down.

Nobody ever said the knee was on the ground. If it's clearly off the ground, he doesn't have to rise further.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by voiceoflg

Like this from 1999?

Link

Perfectly fine in NCAA rules.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by bkdow

So, you would allow the holder to throw a pass with his knee on the ground? At the time he has his knee on the ground and does something besides be a holder, I'm killing the play and ruling him down.

You said in the OP that his knee was never down.

[bkdow]

Ah, I agree

[maven]

Originally Posted by Rich

If it's clearly off the ground, he doesn't have to rise further.

I agree with this, provided that it's clear that the knee is not down. That might be less than clear in the OP.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by maven

I agree with this, provided that it's clear that the knee is not down. That might be less than clear in the OP.

Clear to the official, not necessarily clear to the defense.

[maven]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Clear to the official, not necessarily clear to the defense.

True, but it probably needs to be clear to 3 officials, as the wings might blow this dead, too.