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Mon Apr 14, 2003, 02:56pm
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Got into a "conversation" with a coach this past weekend. He cornered me at another conference and began to aksd how and why. We called Holding on his line about 7 times in a game. The linemen would inital charge and hit open hands at the chest area. Then slide down to their knees, wrap or encircle them(clasping hands on back side: umpire noticed this second play of game told them to not do this) then brought the d-linemen down; ie tackled.
Please inform me if I am wrong and I will eat my crow. BUT is this HOLDING????????? I think so, coach says i am nuts. It is not. O line men CAN do this. I have looked in the rules/case books (NF rules) and can not find anything to support it. Thanks! 
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Mon Apr 14, 2003, 03:21pm
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If you look at the definition of blocking in Rule 2, I believe you will have your answer. I don't have my book but, you will find legal blocking is within the frame of the body, in front and below the shoulders.
The initial contact will only help, this coach's argument if the opponent turns and the blocker remains in contact with him. This coach is wanting to say that blocking ends after initial contact and whatever his team does after initial contact is not illegal, WRONG. But, you may never convince him any different. Good Luck.
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Mon Apr 14, 2003, 03:28pm
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Mon Apr 14, 2003, 08:29pm
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How about trying rule 9.2.1.c I'll repeat it here" An Offensive player shall not use his hands, arms or legs to hook, lock, grasp, encircle or hold in an effort to restrain an opponent." Even a rookie offical would call this all day long as well as the most experienced offical.
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Tue Apr 15, 2003, 08:49am
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THANKS!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Wed Apr 16, 2003, 11:15am
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I would tell the coach the initial charge is just fine. The problem occurs when the lineman grasps his opponent (9-2-1c) in an effort to restrain his movement. Blocking is just that, blocking, not stopping by holding. If I stand in your way and keep moving to remain in your way that is blocking. When I place my hand(s) on you to stop you, that is holding. Sounds like this is a problem with coaching, that is, a coach who teaches such techniques as legal while in reality they are illegal.
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Thu Apr 17, 2003, 01:56pm
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Here's 3 more holding techniques...
First off I want to state that the technique described above is definitely holding. Like you gentlemen have stated, holding is not just only grabbing but also includes restraining an opponent in any manner not allowed by rule.
Here are two more techniques I've observed over the years: 1. The blocker starts out legally with the open hand technique on his opponent's chest but lets one arm slide around the upper arm and he ends up clamping the defender's upper body. His hand ends up on the defender's shoulder blade (upper back area). 2. The blocker starts out legally but a quick defender has him beat to the inside or outside (usually on a punt play or a deep-drop pass play) and the blocker will fall down and hook the defender by ankles or lower legs. 3. Often the most difficult form of holding to detect is when the blocker keeps his hands in on the defender's chest or under his armpits (or shoulder pads) and then grabs the jersey turning a legal open-hand technique into holding. Its a shame but this is the technique that is being coached today by many schools because it is a deliberate attempt to break the rules. Its true, holding is probably the call that requires the most judgement.
__________________
Mike Simonds
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Thu Apr 17, 2003, 02:58pm
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Is this holding?
Few years ago I saw an offensive lineman reaching outside the frame of the defender's body. Play was away from the action, so after it was over I stepped over to the offensive lineman and said, "Better watch your action, it is pretty close to holding." His reply, "I want to take him down to the ground." My reply, "You have to hold in order to do that."
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Fri Apr 18, 2003, 08:53pm
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most umpires like myself know what holding is and is not---
a flag should be dropped if it is at the point of attack (i.e.-- the hole that the running play is coming or when pass blocking) recently I have been of the opinion that the NFL should allow holding behing the line of scrimmage----- the defensive players are so big and fast that an offensive lineman has a nearly impossible task ------ maybe it's true for all level of football ?? we allow clipping and below the waist blocks on internal line play but nowhere else on the field-- what is the difference ??? reaction ??
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Sat Apr 19, 2003, 06:43am
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The difference is that the low block or clip at the LOS last for a split second or less. I.e. until the ball leaves the zone.
Those defensive linemen still have a fair chance to continue the persuit despite. To allow holding behind the line because the offensive linemen are not as big or as fast as his defensive opponent would dramatically change the game. I have no intention to check this out, but I recall some stats that said that NFL O-lineman are bigger than D-lineman. They may not be as fast, but for the most part they are bigger. So learn how to block is the counterpoint. Holding behind the line, especially on pass plays should be called every time.
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Sat Apr 19, 2003, 08:12am
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The saying "you could probably call holding on every play" is a truism. But what you want to do is call holding in close line play when the offensive player gains an advantage over the defender. Otherwise, a two hour game turns into a four hour game.
I rate my umpire on holding calls as to whether the call takes an advantage or is a take-down. Take-downs must always be called. Jersey-grabs while usually inconsequential should always be called -- the defensive coach will think you are not there. As to the size of players. John Madden in "One Knee Equals Two Feet" has a chapter on selecting players. It offers some good insight into what he considers the ideal team. For instance, he talks about selecting a left guard that is faster than the right guard because when you use pulling guards the left guard has to move to get into position with the right guard. Or the one I like and it was highlighted in the New York Giants -- San Francisco 49ers playoff game. As centers get older they tend to get more errant snaps because they want to move faster to make the block. In other words, good coaching is what determines the game. If offensive linemen must hold, then we must penalize. It is the coach's job to get players skilled and conditioned for the game.
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Wed Apr 30, 2003, 10:08am
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A friend of mine (a former Big East and current NFL official) told me what they look for in holding. Like everyone else has said "...gain an advantage" ,"...point of attack." But what do you actually look for when there's questionable activity at the point of attack? A great key to making this judgement call is to look for the defensive player "losing his feet." That is, when he's trying to move toward the ball carrier, his feet will be leading the way. If he's truly being held, you'll see his upper body lagging behind or in some other way moved to a position where it's not over his feet. That's one of the first things they look for in the NFL and in major college conferences. We recently had a clinic where my friend and three other NFL officials presented. We saw a lot of training film and in particular, when the holding plays were reviewed, inevitably they (including NFL U #5 Jim Quirk) would comment that it was a good call because the defender "lost his feet." Didn't necessarily mean he was on the ground; it just means that his feet were no longer in a position to support him. In fact, they said that if an offensive player has a handful of the defender's jersey and the defender is doing nothing to move toward the ball carrier (i.e. they're just "dancing") most NFL officials will pass on the flag.
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Bob M.
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Wed Apr 30, 2003, 01:37pm
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Good point about body movement...
Wonderful observation regarding upper and lower body movements. It makes sense when you see a defender moving away from the blocker to make the play and suddenly you see his upper or lower body moving faster/slower than the rest of him. It helps me move from the scanning mode to the focus mode of my observation. Once I move my eyes to the area of potential holding I can detect whats going on.
Its all part of the "scan, focus, and react" method of calling fouls that I follow after reading my initial keys at the snap.
__________________
Mike Simonds
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