Invalid fair catch

[stegenref]

So I had my first invalid fair catch signal Friday night, but I think I might have screwed it up. I'm posting it here for discussion / advice...please no flaming / bashing.

R1 is in a position to field a punt. As the ball is in flight, I see his two hands come up in front of his chest and kind of swipe across his chest...almost like he was brushing some crumbs off the front of his jersey. I remember thinking, "Was that supposed to be a fair catch signal?" and thinking, "No way, that was way too subtle to be considered a signal." Of course I only had a milli-second to think that because then he caught the ball and a horde of defenders came running up on him. Well evidently he thought he gave a good signal, because he made no attempt at a return and just casually turned toward me and started walking toward me to hand me the ball. All the defenders stopped and were standing right in front of him. I never blew my whistle, because in my mind I was thinking, "That's a live ball, why is no one tackling him". Everyone turned and looked at me, and as soon as the defenders realized I hadn't blown the whistle, they turned back and started tackling the kid. I realized then that I'd better kill the play or that kid was going to get hurt, so I blew my whistle dead and gave R the ball at that spot.

R1 came up to me after the play and was like, "Why'd you let them hit me, I gave a fair catch signal!". I told him, "No you didn't, a fair catch signal is one arm extended above the head, waving back and forth".

Looking back on it, and after researching it, I think maybe that as soon as I realized that R1 had thought he'd given a fair catch signal, I should've blown it dead for his protection and thrown a flag on him for an invalid fair catch signal.

[MNBlue]

Originally Posted by stegenref

So I had my first invalid fair catch signal Friday night, but I think I might have screwed it up. I'm posting it here for discussion / advice...please no flaming / bashing.
R1 is in a position to field a punt. As the ball is in flight, I see his two hands come up in front of his chest and kind of swipe across his chest...almost like he was brushing some crumbs off the front of his jersey. I remember thinking, "Was that supposed to be a fair catch signal?" and thinking, "No way, that was way too subtle to be considered a signal." Of course I only had a milli-second to think that because then he caught the ball and a horde of defenders came running up on him. Well evidently he thought he gave a good signal, because he made no attempt at a return and just casually turned toward me and started walking toward me to hand me the ball. All the defenders stopped and were standing right in front of him. I never blew my whistle, because in my mind I was thinking, "That's a live ball, why is no one tackling him". Everyone turned and looked at me, and as soon as the defenders realized I hadn't blown the whistle, they turned back and started tackling the kid. I realized then that I'd better kill the play or that kid was going to get hurt, so I blew my whistle dead and gave R the ball at that spot.

R1 came up to me after the play and was like, "Why'd you let them hit me, I gave a fair catch signal!". I told him, "No you didn't, a fair catch signal is one arm extended above the head, waving back and forth".

Looking back on it, and after researching it, I think maybe that as soon as I realized that R1 had thought he'd given a fair catch signal, I should've blown it dead for his protection and thrown a flag on him for an invalid fair catch signal.

How sad is that? New people need to ask us NOT to give them grief - everyone, take the hint and get over yourselves (me included).

I agree with your looking back assessment. I'm not sure where we draw the line with the arm movement R does prior to catching the ball to try and determine if he is catching the ball or giving an invalid signal, but we probably need to err on the side of safety. If you're wrong, it only costs R 5 yards - if you're right, you might be saving R1 from getting blown up.

[Snake~eyes]

R cannot advance after valid or invalid fair catch: 6-5-5

As soon as R catches the ball is dead, throw the flag.

Personally if R gives a bad fair catch signal I will just kill the play once R catches it. If no K player contacts R then I'd warn the player, if K does hit the R player then I would just call invalid fair catch signal.

[Refsmitty]

Go Lions!

[jophyal]

Safety should always be in the forefront of our thoughts. However, R1's signal sounds alot like the same motion alot of teams use to "Peter" or get away from ball. That being said, I agree that you were correct in looking things up and rethinking the situation. The good thing about this is you will probably never get fooled again and will look good when you call it. Have a good season...

[MD Longhorn]

I think you're asking for trouble making your ruling based on post-catch actions... if YOU thought it was a signal (or maybe more accurately, if you thought R's motions MIGHT be construed by K players as being a fair catch signal), then kill it. Sound like, however, you did NOT think it was a signal at all until AFTER the catch and you saw him not run. Err on the side of protecting him (and penalizing the poor signal)... but if you didn't consider it a signal - don't change your mind mid-play. You were right that you had a live ball... treat it as such.

(Besides, even though I'm an advocate of not whistling unless you HAVE to - a big loud whistle is appropriate on a fair catch... given that you did not whistle, players should play accordingly. This applies to both R and K.)

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by Snake~eyes

R cannot advance after valid or invalid fair catch: 6-5-5

As soon as R catches the ball is dead, throw the flag.

Personally if R gives a bad fair catch signal I will just kill the play once R catches it. If no K player contacts R then I'd warn the player, if K does hit the R player then I would just call invalid fair catch signal.

This is the correct ruling, but caution is needed on this play. The OP describes a gesture that could be the R player telling teammates to get away from the kick. R is allowed to make other signals, after all, and not have it count as an invalid fair catch signal.

I agree that the OP is a case of an invalid signal. Perhaps the OP's concern is rooted in the fact that you often don't know whether you have an invalid signal until you see what the players do after the catch. But that's ok.

When I'm BJ, I make sure to talk to the receiver(s) before each punt, and I illustrate a correct FC signal for them. It's on the film, in case coach wants to discuss it with them afterwards.

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by stegenref

R1 is in a position to field a punt. As the ball is in flight, I see his two hands come up in front of his chest and kind of swipe across his chest...almost like he was brushing some crumbs off the front of his jersey. I remember thinking, "Was that supposed to be a fair catch signal?" and thinking, "No way, that was way too subtle to be considered a signal."

I'd've assumed he was wiping his hands preparatory to catching the ball. If everybody stopped, maybe that means in their sandlot games that's a fair catch signal!

[Tom.OH]

Originally Posted by mbyron

When I'm BJ, I make sure to talk to the receiver(s) before each punt, and I illustrate a correct FC signal for them. It's on the film, in case coach wants to discuss it with them afterwards.

I have not worked BJ in years but Saturday in a JV game I was the U , i went back to cover the punt (Ohio mechanics) and I tell the receivers if they are going to make a fair catch to give me a good signal.

[ajmc]

Originally Posted by Tom.OH

I have not worked BJ in years but Saturday in a JV game I was the U , i went back to cover the punt (Ohio mechanics) and I tell the receivers if they are going to make a fair catch to give me a good signal.

It may seem redundant, it may seem unnecessary but the standard mechanic in our area is for the BJ, or LJ (4 man) retreating down field in a scrimmage kick situation makes eye contact with the deep receiver, demonstrates a valid FC signal while reminding the receiver to signal properly if he wants a FC.