Enforcement on the punt return that never was

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

How do you know that the left gunner isn't going to make a play somewhere in the middle of the field but was held/taken down completely out of the play?

What if there was a defensive penalty downfield? Then do you magically enforce the hold at the line in order to offset the penalties or do you pick up the foul on A and give B a benefit it doesn't have?

Besides, the defense has a choice, doesn't it? It can decline the penalty if it wants.

We don't throw a flag to offset penalties; magically or otherwise.

Each foul is judged on it's own merits on the play. A left gunner being held with the punt to the middle could very likely be flagged.

We're also instructed to prevent fouls (this is a huge thing) so when working the wing on a kicking play, I'm yelling at B players to "only blocking, no holding". If B is listening to the officials that are using their voices, they very well could get away with a minor hold before resuming blocking. I easily prevent multiple fouls per game using this method, whether it be preventing offside fouls, an occasional hold, or a late hit.

I had the first flag of the game in my college game this past Saturday. < 5 minutes into the game, I warned a WR about holding a DB to allow for more YAC on a short pass. A was tackled for a very short gain, so the hold downfield didn't matter. I even explained to him why it's a hold when he was coming off the field. Sure enough, next offensive series, A's pass to the flats with YAC for a long gain and the same hold was there. Flagged. That's exactly how we do it up here: no effect, no flag, but still warn with our voices. Continued illegal action get flagged.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

We don't throw a flag to offset penalties; magically or otherwise.

Sorry, but I don't believe in throwing a flag later in a play when a player who was held "becomes relevant." In your play with the sweep, a hold that happened 5-6 seconds ago wasn't relevant when it originally happened and I'd assume that after that much time the B player is probably back in the play. I still wouldn't have thrown the flag. The only time I'll throw a flag later is when I need additional information from another official, such as IG.

And we will throw it to make sure that a penalty on B is offset. But it still has to be a foul. The minor hold on the left end when the play goes the other way isn't going to be flagged, cause it's not a foul -- it's not at the point of attack.

But a lineman holding when the QB gets sacked is still a foul -- it's just one you've decided after the fact "didn't matter after all" and should get picked up. My crew isn't picking that up for 2 reasons -- (1) The defense can decline it if they wish and (2) if there is another foul on the defense, it's penalizing the defense for picking up a flag for a legitimate foul on the offense.

[bisonlj]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

Sorry, but I don't believe in throwing a flag later in a play when a player who was held "becomes relevant." In your play with the sweep, a hold that happened 5-6 seconds ago wasn't relevant when it originally happened and I'd assume that after that much time the B player is probably back in the play. I still wouldn't have thrown the flag. The only time I'll throw a flag later is when I need additional information from another official, such as IG.

And we will throw it to make sure that a penalty on B is offset. But it still has to be a foul. The minor hold on the left end when the play goes the other way isn't going to be flagged, cause it's not a foul -- it's not at the point of attack.

But a lineman holding when the QB gets sacked is still a foul -- it's just one you've decided after the fact "didn't matter after all" and should get picked up. My crew isn't picking that up for 2 reasons -- (1) The defense can decline it if they wish and (2) if there is another foul on the defense, it's penalizing the defense for picking up a flag for a legitimate foul on the offense.

For me this flag only gets picked up if the calling official decides he should have passed on it. As the R I'm not going to ask him to pick it up on the field. I will have a talk with him though because he probably threw his flag too quickly.

Holding is an advantage/disadvantage foul so if B70 is held in the middle while B65 is making the tackle 5 yards behind the LOS, A gained no advantage with the hold. If the hold happened in the same place and the QB ends up scrambling and 4-5 seconds later gets tackled for a 5-yard loss then you have a different situation. Let the play go for a second or two (say "it's a foul, it's a foul, it's a foul" before throwing your flag) to see what immediately happens.