N. Carolina/Tennessee

[RealityCheck]

Originally Posted by TXMike

Many of us have talked about plays just like this in hypothetical terms for several years. We knew there would be a day when it would happen, and it did. It happened in an inconsequential game but that does not mean it could not happen in the BCS Championship game. (And now that coaches have seen it play out in technicolor you know they are hard at work figuring out how to exploit this for themselves in the future)

Doesn't matter what game it happened in. The rules in place would have handled the situation properly if they had been enforced properly. If the North Carolina kicker can make it from 49 instead of 39, they still play OT.

But why should players and officials but put into frantic end-half and end-game situations where mistakes from both groups are inevitable? The rules should keep end-half and end-game situations orderly. CFL timing rules do that. NCAA and NFL timing rules do not.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by RealityCheck

But why should players and officials but put into frantic end-half and end-game situations where mistakes from both groups are inevitable? The rules should keep end-half and end-game situations orderly. CFL timing rules do that. NCAA and NFL timing rules do not.

I disagree with that. You may like the CFL rules on timing, but I cannot stand to watch most of that game for all other kinds of rules. It is about style and how you want to govern behavior on the field. I have no problem with the timing rules in either league and comparing an amateur level to a pro level where things are purposely done to keep things in check is kind of silly anyway. There are reasons each level has different set of rules because of what the participants will do and try to get advantages. I do not see this as being a major advantage as I am reading this or something common. But then again I did not see the game in question or the situation so I will have to take your word for what happened.

Peace

[Steven Tyler]

Originally Posted by RealityCheck

Doesn't matter what game it happened in. The rules in place would have handled the situation properly if they had been enforced properly. If the North Carolina kicker can make it from 49 instead of 39, they still play OT.

But why should players and officials but put into frantic end-half and end-game situations where mistakes from both groups are inevitable? The rules should keep end-half and end-game situations orderly. CFL timing rules do that. NCAA and NFL timing rules do not.

In Canada they also like to pop the top on an ice cold Moose Drool or Trout Slayer. You'll get my Miller Lite when you pry it out of my cold, dead hand...

Mistakes happen. In the medical profession they're called "learning experiences".

Suggest you try the hockey forum....

[JRutledge]

Dave Parry and NCAA Rules Committee Chair Connecticut coach Randy Edsall speak up on situation

[Camron Rust]

One thing they didn't mention about the NC/UT situation is that there were 12 men in formation in addtion to the extra substitutes that were running off the field.

There were 2 down linemen to the left of the center, the center, 3 down linemen to the right of the center. One tightend on the right end, two receivers on the left side, the QB, a holder, and a kicker. (Plus the 5 or so players still on the field but trying to leave)

If I understand the NCAA rules correctly, it seems that should have made it a 15 yard penalty (Rule 9-1-5b, illegal participation). rather than 5 (illegal substitution).

10 yards further back and maybe UNC misses the FG.

UT made a number of errors down the stretch but UT got a raw deal in this one any way you slice it....whether by UNC being able to kill the clock at the cost of a penalty (bet that rule changes before next year) or by not getting the correct penalty (15 vs. 5).

(And, no, I'm certainly NOT a UT fan).

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

One thing they didn't mention about the NC/UT situation is that there were 12 men in formation in addtion to the extra substitutes that were running off the field.

There were 2 down linemen to the left of the center, the center, 3 down linemen to the right of the center. One tightend on the right end, two receivers on the left side, the QB, a holder, and a kicker. (Plus the 5 or so players still on the field but trying to leave)

If I understand the NCAA rules correctly, it seems that should have made it a 15 yard penalty (Rule 9-1-5b, illegal participation). rather than 5 (illegal substitution).

10 yards further back and maybe UNC misses the FG.

UT made a number of errors down the stretch but UT got a raw deal in this one any way you slice it....whether by UNC being able to kill the clock at the cost of a penalty (bet that rule changes before next year) or by not getting the correct penalty (15 vs. 5).

(And, no, I'm certainly NOT a UT fan).

They got it correct as there is a live ball substitution foul in the rules at the NCAA level and NF level. They only can be an IP foul if they participate or influence the play. Players running off the field are considered players that have not completed a proper substitution within the proper time.

Peace

[TXMike]

There actually were 12 set in the formation, not even counting the mass of players trying to run back off the field. In the chaos I doubt the U or R had a chance to count them.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

They got it correct as there is a live ball substitution foul in the rules at the NCAA level and NF level. They only can be an IP foul if they participate or influence the play. Players running off the field are considered players that have not completed a proper substitution within the proper time.

Peace

Did you even read my post?

There were 12 set in position ready to run a play in addition to all those running off. I detailed where they were and who they were. There were two fouls on that play...Illegal Substitution and Illegal Participation. They missed 12 in the play. But, the replay official SHOULD have seen that...but didn't.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Did you even read my post?

There were 12 set in position ready to run a play in addition to all those running off. I detailed where they were and who they were. There were two fouls on that play...Illegal Substitution and Illegal Participation. They missed 12 in the play. But, the replay official SHOULD have seen that...but didn't.

I read what you said, but you seem to not understand the idiosyncrasies of the rules on this situation. It is only participation when they participate or if they influence the play. I am admitting I did not see the call, just stating what the rules are and how it could have been called. It may have been wrong and I am not sure the replay can review this like the NFL. Unless you can show me a rule, the replay official is not involved. I am familiar with NCAA rules, but I admit I know little about all review rules as I have never worked a game under those circumstances.

Peace