OT Question

[ILRef]

IHSA (Illinois) uses the NFHS standard OT procedure. We recently had a 2 OT game. After the first OT, I offered the loser of the first OT coin toss the choice of Off./Def./Which end of field. This team selected D. I then asked the other team which end to play in. They selected the opposite end that the 1st OT had been played in. Coaches and officials questioned my decision to move from one end to the other after an OT. These people's contention was that once an end is selected, we do not move. I am confident that I presented the correct choices, but want to know if other officials' are interpreting the OT procedure rules in the way that would keep all OTs in one end of the field.

[mikesears]

Originally posted by ILRef
IHSA (Illinois) uses the NFHS standard OT procedure. We recently had a 2 OT game. After the first OT, I offered the loser of the first OT coin toss the choice of Off./Def./Which end of field. This team selected D. I then asked the other team which end to play in. They selected the opposite end that the 1st OT had been played in. Coaches and officials questioned my decision to move from one end to the other after an OT. These people's contention was that once an end is selected, we do not move. I am confident that I presented the correct choices, but want to know if other officials' are interpreting the OT procedure rules in the way that would keep all OTs in one end of the field.

That is how I interpret the 10 yard OT procedure, so IMHO, I think you got it right.

As a side note, I just read something that helped me in a 3OT game we worked earlier this year. ONLY regulation game timeouts carry over to the next OT. Unused OT timeouts do NOT carry over to succeeding OT's. (See OT Procedure 3-5-1).

[Theisey]

Originally posted by mikesears
As a side note, I just read something that helped me in a 3OT game we worked earlier this year. ONLY regulation game timeouts carry over to the next OT. Unused OT timeouts do NOT carry over to succeeding OT's. (See OT Procedure 3-5-1).
[/B]

I don't read where that rule modification says that at all.
However, it is a moot point as your state office decides how the timeouts are to be handled. Table 1-7 #9 gives the power to the states regarding procedures to resolve ties.
We carry all unused TO's over. Not that it matters, teams rarely use more than one.

[mikesears]

Originally posted by Theisey

I don't read where that rule modification says that at all.
However, it is a moot point as your state office decides how the timeouts are to be handled. Table 1-7 #9 gives the power to the states regarding procedures to resolve ties.
We carry all unused TO's over. Not that it matters, teams rarely use more than one. [/B]

Illinois uses the OT procedure directly from the book with no modifications. I agree that this rarely comes into play.

Either on this board or the other board I frequent, I specifically asked about unsed OT timeouts and if they carried over and there was some good discussion on this. After asking, I went back and read the OT procedure again. IMO, I think the rule is clear. It states, one additional timeout for each overtime and any unused 2nd half regulation game timeouts. It does not say "plus any unused OT timeouts".

Other states may have different rule modifications.

[Huskerblue]

I don't have my rule book with me for an exact citation, but once an end is selected for OT, The NFHSstates that all OT periods will be played in that end, unless that end becomes unplayable for any reason. (weather, poor field condition, etc.)Sorry, I think you may be incorrect by offering the choice of "which end" after the first OT.

[mikesears]

Originally posted by Huskerblue
I don't have my rule book with me for an exact citation, but once an end is selected for OT, The NFHSstates that all OT periods will be played in that end, unless that end becomes unplayable for any reason. (weather, poor field condition, etc.)Sorry, I think you may be incorrect by offering the choice of "which end" after the first OT.

I don't have my rulebook either but I believe it says, both teams attempts during the same OT period will be played at the same end.

One of the caseplays says something like, for the 2OT, team B elects to play at the other end of the field and the ruling is that this one of Team B's options.


I could be wrong. Wouldn't be the first time and probably won't be the last time.

[ILRef]

Once again, I am confident that the procedure followed in this game was correct. I wonder if the confusion arises from the statement in the OT procedure that says, "The same end of the field will be used for possessions by both teams during the two sets of downs to ensure equal game conditions and conserve time." This reference pertains to an individual OT, not all of the OTs. Refer to NFHS Case Book 3.1.1 Situation D which discusses changing ends of the field for OT.

[snrmike]

You did it correctly.

We had a very close game on Friday night. At the half, there was a genuine possibility of OT, so we cracked the book open and re-checked EVERYTHING about the OT procedure, since Indiana uses the NF procedure verbatim. The teams decided the game during regulation, but we commited the entire procedure to memory. I can't tell you what the score was, but we have that procedure down pat!

[KWH]

Originally posted by mikesears
[4As a side note, I just read something that helped me in a 3OT game we worked earlier this year. ONLY regulation game timeouts carry over to the next OT. Unused OT timeouts do NOT carry over to succeeding OT's. (See OT Procedure 3-5-1).



[/B]

To Mike and all others:
I posed the question of time outs carrying over to George Demetriou who along with Rogers Redding publish "Officials Study Guide to NFHS Football Rules. George's response was as follows:

"The intent of the rule is for all timeouts starting with the second half to accumulate. Dick Schindler verified that in the early 90's. I agree the wording in the RB is confusing."

It is also listed on Page 67 (2000 edition) of "Officials Study Guide to NFHS Football Rules" where it states "During each overtime period, each team is allocated one additional charged timeout. Timeouts remaining from the second half of regulation play AND unused timeouts from any previous overtime period(s) carry over."

Therefore based on Dick Schindler's interpetation, it is possbile for Team A to have 6 timeouts remaining in OT session 3!

Additionally:
As for changing ends of the field for overtime period 2 and all additional overtime periods. Casebook 3.1.1 Situation D makes it clear this IS an option!

Hope this helps...

[mikesears]

Originally posted by KWH

To Mike and all others:
I posed the question of time outs carrying over to George Demetriou who along with Rogers Redding publish "Officials Study Guide to NFHS Football Rules. George's response was as follows:

"The intent of the rule is for all timeouts starting with the second half to accumulate. Dick Schindler verified that in the early 90's. I agree the wording in the RB is confusing."

It is also listed on Page 67 (2000 edition) of "Officials Study Guide to NFHS Football Rules" where it states "During each overtime period, each team is allocated one additional charged timeout. Timeouts remaining from the second half of regulation play AND unused timeouts from any previous overtime period(s) carry over."

Therefore based on Dick Schindler's interpetation, it is possbile for Team A to have 6 timeouts remaining in OT session 3!

Additionally:
As for changing ends of the field for overtime period 2 and all additional overtime periods. Casebook 3.1.1 Situation D makes it clear this IS an option!

Hope this helps...

[/B]

I never would have intepretted the wording that way. Thanks for the clarification. Maybe the NF should clean up the wording of the OT procedure. Almost seems like it is simply an afterthought.

[BktBallRef]

In FL and NC, we follow the interpretation that Mike originally posted. And, as Tom stated, since this is a state association decision, you should abide by what your state decides.

Also, while the Guide that George Demetriou and Rogers Redding have written is terrific, it is not without errors. I wouldn't call this an error but it's certainly not the rule in every state, anymore than starting from the 10 yard line is.

BTW, if you do find an error in the Guide, they are very receptive to communication regarding it.

[KWH]

Originally posted by BktBallRef
In FL and NC, we follow the interpretation that Mike originally posted. And, as Tom stated, since this is a state association decision, you should abide by what your state decides.

Also, while the Guide that George Demetriou and Rogers Redding have written is terrific, it is not without errors. I wouldn't call this an error but it's certainly not the rule in every state, anymore than starting from the 10 yard line is.

BTW, if you do find an error in the Guide, they are very receptive to communication regarding it.

Tony-
I don't understand your point.
The question I thought I was answering is this:
If the standard NFHS (The one in the NFHS Rulebook) is being used; do UNUSED second half timeouts AND UNUSED OT timeouts carry over into additional overtimes?
The answer to that question as per George Demetriou, Rogers Redding and Dick Schindler is YES THEY DO?

I can't speak for other states but I can for Oregon and Washington where the first two overtimes are from the 25 yardline, 1st and ten. Third and subsequent OT 's are from the Ten, where it is first and goal. Nothing else is modified and as such any unsued timeouts would carry over.

I would be real interested if any states uses the NFHS overtime procedure but modify's the timeouts so they don't carry over. Are you saying you are aware of some states that do modify the timeouts from the NFHS rulebook? I would be interested in reasearching this. Please provide me which specific states if you know of any!

On another note I would be interested in the "errors" you have found in the NFHS Football Rules Study guide as they will most likely make a good topic on this forum!
Thanks

[Edited by KWH on Oct 15th, 2002 at 12:48 AM]

[KWH]

Hey Tony,
Did you miss the questions I asked of you in the post above this one?
Thanks

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by KWH
Hey Tony,
Did you miss the questions I asked of you in the post above this one?
Thanks

Nope, I just have to work for a living!

I was simply commenting that there are states that interpret the OT TO rule the way Mike decscribed it. Two of those states are NC and FL. I don't know how IL interprets the rule.

BTW, I don't agree with this interp but I'm forced to use it anyway. But who knows? Maybe it'll get me home a little earlier some night!

As far as the Guide, take a look in the Penalty Summary at Illegal Participation and let me know if you think the enforcement spots are correct.

[don16954]

Our IHSA crew worked two overtime games this past weekend, one varsity (10/18 - 1 OT) and one JV (10/21 - 4OT). We agree with the way you handled the choices, as that is the same way we offered the choices. In the JV game, after the first toss, the winning team was offered defense, offense or end of field. For the second-fourth, the choice alternated between the proper captains, and the choices remained the same, offense, defense or end of field, per 10-Yard Line Overtime Procedure (2002 Rules Book pp.74-750, in particular 5-1-1, paragraph 6.

As to the timeouts, our crew reads the rule as the TO's accumulating all remaining TO's from the second half, plus each OT. Hence in the 1OT, the home team had 1 TO, as they had used all their TO's at the end of the 4th Quarter trying to score, and the visiting team, having used no TO's, had 4 TO's; in 2OT, Vistitors, still not using any, had 5 TO's, Home had 2TO's as they did not use the one awarded for the 1OT.