Flag thrown for TD Celebration

[chseagle]

YouTube - Running back penalized for gesture to God

According to comment posters & media outlets the flag was thrown for the player kneeling & pointing to heaven, what do you think?

[TXMike]

I suspect the covering official will say the flag was thrown for the player drawing attentoion to himself. Many of us would not have seen it that way. Furthermore, the NCAA rules were tweaked 15 years ago to deal with acts like this and they have been permissible. I am surprised the NFHS has apparently never confronted the issue and dealt with it at the national level. Instead they seem content to leave it to the judgment of each official.

[ajmc]

Originally Posted by TXMike

I suspect the covering official will say the flag was thrown for the player drawing attentoion to himself. Many of us would not have seen it that way. Furthermore, the NCAA rules were tweaked 15 years ago to deal with acts like this and they have been permissible. I am surprised the NFHS has apparently never confronted the issue and dealt with it at the national level. Instead they seem content to leave it to the judgment of each official.

It seems some have difficulty remembering that NFHS games, despite all the sometimes excessive hype and crazyness attached to them, are intended for a younger (and expedtedly less mature) pool of athletes. Although many choose to ignore it, these are actually still games played by children and not the matters of "life and death" so many choose to try and apply to them.

Personally, this particular incident, based solely on this out of context snippet, does not seem worthy of a penalty, although without knowing what may have transpired with this player previously during this contest, I'd withhold judgment as to whether this flag should have been thrown or why it was thrown.

In general, the NFHS reliance of the soundness of it's official's judgment in determining the seriousness of such behavior has apparently served the needs and objectives of NFHS contests well. Leaving rational judgment in the hands of competent and reasonable officials most often ( but sadly short of always) seems to consistently satisfy the needs of game management at the High School (and below) level, better than trying to anticipate and specify every possibility conceivable by exceptionally fertile imaginations.

There may be some point, at any level, of this great game, where this increasing insistence on nit-picking for nit-picking sake, and the increasing overreaction to the nit-picking, could seriously hamper the enjoyment and success of this game.

[TXMike]

This was reportedly the 18th time this season the kid had done this and nobody until this back judge decided it was worthy of a flag. I am going with the majority on this one. No flag

[ajmc]

Originally Posted by TXMike

This was reportedly the 18th time this season the kid had done this and nobody until this back judge decided it was worthy of a flag. I am going with the majority on this one. No flag

I wonder how many, of those18 times, an official may have whispered some words of sound advice into his helmet ear hole suggesting he not be so dramatic? I wonder if that same official might have whispered such advice into his ear hole earlier in this very contest?

If I bother to whisper advice into an ear hole, and whatever I was whispering about is subsequently ignored or repeated, most likely there will be a flag. Sometimes a brief comment or even just a stern look can send a smart player a teaching moment. Players not so smart may require additional measures.

[TXMike]

From the interview of the kid I'd say nobody ever whispered in his ear hole nor did anyone ever feel the need to do so.

In this particular game it was the kid's first score so there was no whispering done here either.

Your description of the kid's act as "dramatic" suggests you and I are never going to find agreement here. We are clearly "seeing" 2 very different actions.

[InsideTheStripe]

Originally Posted by TXMike

I suspect the covering official will say the flag was thrown for the player drawing attentoion to himself.

It appears to me the covering official was trying to draw attention to himself.

[chseagle]

Here's the response from the WIAA Executive Director, Mike Colbrese:

"WIAA Statement Regarding 2A Semifinal Penalty
12/2/2010

Reports of a ‘high school football player penalized for praying’ in the end zone following a touchdown have greatly exaggerated an official’s call and taken it out of context. During last Monday’s 2A state semifinal game, a player dropped to one knee and pointed skyward following a touchdown.

Based on national playing rule (NFHS 9-5.C) the referee considered the gesture ‘an excessive or prolonged act during which the player drew attention to himself’. That was the basis of the penalty with no inference to religion or a player’s right to offer a personal reflection of thanks for performing well.

While the official’s judgment was based on a national federation rule, the WIAA will continue to work with the Washington Officials Association to ensure consistent, enforcement and interpretations of playing rules for future contests.

--Mike Colbrese, WIAA Executive Director"

[umpirebob71]

Originally Posted by chseagle

Here's the response from the WIAA Executive Director, Mike Colbrese:

"WIAA Statement Regarding 2A Semifinal Penalty
12/2/2010

Reports of a ‘high school football player penalized for praying’ in the end zone following a touchdown have greatly exaggerated an official’s call and taken it out of context. During last Monday’s 2A state semifinal game, a player dropped to one knee and pointed skyward following a touchdown.

Based on national playing rule (NFHS 9-5.C) the referee considered the gesture ‘an excessive or prolonged act during which the player drew attention to himself’. That was the basis of the penalty with no inference to religion or a player’s right to offer a personal reflection of thanks for performing well.

While the official’s judgment was based on a national federation rule, the WIAA will continue to work with the Washington Officials Association to ensure consistent, enforcement and interpretations of playing rules for future contests.

--Mike Colbrese, WIAA Executive Director"

That is, of course, the rule. What the rulebook does not give you, is the common sense to apply the rule judisciously. That act was neither "excessive" or "prolonged." Spin it all you like, Mr. Colbrese. That official overreacted to a simple benign gesture.

[asdf]

Imagine that chaos that would have been created if pink whistles were involved.

[ottobabble]

Originally Posted by InsideTheStripe

It appears to me the covering official was trying to draw attention to himself.

I thought so too!
Maybe he learned something from all this.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by chseagle

YouTube - Running back penalized for gesture to God

According to comment posters & media outlets the flag was thrown for the player kneeling & pointing to heaven, what do you think?

Over officious, so bad call.

A school board administrator said that the player is required to give the ball to an official right away. But players all the time leave the ball to the ground after they get in. But no flag.

It's his bad reasoning and escape to justify penalizing this act without actually saying giving praise to God shouldn't be done.

[With_Two_Flakes]

Originally Posted by chseagle

According to comment posters & media outlets the flag was thrown for the player kneeling & pointing to heaven, what do you think?

Would I have flagged it? No. Would I have had a word? Yes.

Interesting to see it on Youtube, It made me realise that there are a whole lot of nuts who post complete nonsense on YouTube...

[ottobabble]

What caught my eye was the fact that the flag hits him! The BJ had no reason to throw it at the player (UC is never a spot foul), and I didn't think they way the BJ comes in shaking his head is very professional. The act was so quick and in no way was it an attempt to call attention to himself. I was impressed on how the player commented to the media and stayed clear of commenting on the official, and I think his "plan" should he score again indicates to me he was geniune in why he did it.

[bkdow]

There was not referee in the vacinity to hand the ball to anyway. That was over-zealous officiating. I hope that the referee was spoken to or learned from a wiser mentor that this was an unnecessary flag. I don't care if he score 10 touchdowns in that game, we should not be over-refereeing things such as this with an attitude like a school-yard monitor that hates their job.